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Old 02-17-13, 01:11
PCutter PCutter is offline
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Default Stiff gear changing - get new cables?

I recently upgraded the group on my second bike to Sram Rival (on super special and replacing 13y.o. 105 so it was an upgrade) however the gear changing takes considerable effort/is quite stiff, especially changing up to the big ring. I have also run Sram Force in the past which has had quite light shifting. Is the stiffness/effort required to change gears likely because of the lower spec group, or would a cable upgrade improve the lightness of feel?

The frame (an aluminium Principia circa 2000) has external gear routing - would there be much of an improvement by upgrading cables or would you notice most cable improvement with internal routed setups, so changing cables on an external set up not likely to improve much?

And finally, I was thinking Yokozuna - would there be a better option, bearing in mind this is my second bike I use for commuting/pre-work training (ie left locked in the garage under work so not my 'good' bike) and running rival, so I probably don't see much sense in upgrading to a lightweight bling set up.

Cheers
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Old 02-17-13, 04:18
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ustabe ustabe is offline
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Whether the cables run inside or outside the frame has little bearing on shifting effort, although some internal routing setups put the cabling through some tight contortions in the spans between the handlebar and the hole in the frame. Generally, external routing is significantly easier to troubleshoot. Make sure the cable is sliding freely inside each housing span, and make sure there is no damage.

With any new shifter installation I recommend new stainless cables, housings and ferrules, at the very least. I've been having good results with standard Bontrager, Shimano, and Jagwire cables and housings. With SRAM I recommend routing the cable around the outside, or rear, of the handlebar for easier bends. Also make sure the loop to the rear derailleur is sufficiently long and round. There should be no kinks or angles in the routing.

As for the difficulty shifting to the big ring, be sure the cable isn't pulling to tightly against the high limit screw. The cage should kiss the limit screw lightly at the end of the cable pull, not mash against it.
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Old 02-17-13, 14:28
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Bustedknuckle Bustedknuckle is offline
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Originally Posted by PCutter View Post
I recently upgraded the group on my second bike to Sram Rival (on super special and replacing 13y.o. 105 so it was an upgrade) however the gear changing takes considerable effort/is quite stiff, especially changing up to the big ring. I have also run Sram Force in the past which has had quite light shifting. Is the stiffness/effort required to change gears likely because of the lower spec group, or would a cable upgrade improve the lightness of feel?

The frame (an aluminium Principia circa 2000) has external gear routing - would there be much of an improvement by upgrading cables or would you notice most cable improvement with internal routed setups, so changing cables on an external set up not likely to improve much?

And finally, I was thinking Yokozuna - would there be a better option, bearing in mind this is my second bike I use for commuting/pre-work training (ie left locked in the garage under work so not my 'good' bike) and running rival, so I probably don't see much sense in upgrading to a lightweight bling set up.

Cheers
Make sure the BB guide is clean. Make sure the der housing is 5MM not the crappy 4mm, brass ferrules and long enough but sram shifting on the FD, including high effort, is common, particularly on lower groups. If ya get a 6700 or 5700 FD, the effort will be lower and the shift will be much, MUCH better to the big ring. Also a shimano chain..and cogset and the group can work.
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Old 02-17-13, 22:08
cadelcrybaby cadelcrybaby is offline
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Did you get a nice clean cut on the cable outers? Sometimes if it gets crushed it can create friction.
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Old 02-17-13, 22:21
PCutter PCutter is offline
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Thanks for the tips, will check all suggestions.

BK - I've noted historically lots of reviews comment on old Red's bad FD shifting, didn't know it was across the SRAM groups, cheers
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Old 02-18-13, 00:13
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laziali laziali is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ustabe View Post
Whether the cables run inside or outside the frame has little bearing on shifting effort, although some internal routing setups put the cabling through some tight contortions in the spans between the handlebar and the hole in the frame. Generally, external routing is significantly easier to troubleshoot. Make sure the cable is sliding freely inside each housing span, and make sure there is no damage.

With any new shifter installation I recommend new stainless cables, housings and ferrules, at the very least. I've been having good results with standard Bontrager, Shimano, and Jagwire cables and housings. With SRAM I recommend routing the cable around the outside, or rear, of the handlebar for easier bends. Also make sure the loop to the rear derailleur is sufficiently long and round. There should be no kinks or angles in the routing.

As for the difficulty shifting to the big ring, be sure the cable isn't pulling to tightly against the high limit screw. The cage should kiss the limit screw lightly at the end of the cable pull, not mash against it.
Best post I've seen in a while. Covers the full range of issues. Thumbs up.
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Old 02-18-13, 05:58
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42x16ss 42x16ss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ustabe View Post
Whether the cables run inside or outside the frame has little bearing on shifting effort, although some internal routing setups put the cabling through some tight contortions in the spans between the handlebar and the hole in the frame. Generally, external routing is significantly easier to troubleshoot. Make sure the cable is sliding freely inside each housing span, and make sure there is no damage.

With any new shifter installation I recommend new stainless cables, housings and ferrules, at the very least. I've been having good results with standard Bontrager, Shimano, and Jagwire cables and housings. With SRAM I recommend routing the cable around the outside, or rear, of the handlebar for easier bends. Also make sure the loop to the rear derailleur is sufficiently long and round. There should be no kinks or angles in the routing.

As for the difficulty shifting to the big ring, be sure the cable isn't pulling to tightly against the high limit screw. The cage should kiss the limit screw lightly at the end of the cable pull, not mash against it.
Great post, especially the highlighted! SRAM needs a much longer loop of RD cable than Shimano or Campag
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Old 02-19-13, 03:36
winkybiker winkybiker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCutter View Post
I......Sram Rival (on super special and replacing 13y.o. 105 so it was an upgrade) .
I wouldn't be so sure....
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Old 02-19-13, 14:09
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Bustedknuckle Bustedknuckle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCutter View Post
Thanks for the tips, will check all suggestions.

BK - I've noted historically lots of reviews comment on old Red's bad FD shifting, didn't know it was across the SRAM groups, cheers
Seen 2 bikes lately, one Force, one older red and both benefited greatly with 6700 Fders, to eleviate the really crappy front shifting.
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Old 02-19-13, 23:27
dsut4392 dsut4392 is offline
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Originally Posted by 42x16ss View Post
Great post, especially the highlighted! SRAM needs a much longer loop of RD cable than Shimano or Campag
You want the housing length just right - too long is almost as bad as too short IMO. If you make the housing too long you're likely to end up with a kink at the housing stops on the frame and at the derailleur. What you want is a nice smooth radius between the stops with enough length to accommodate movement of the cage. The length will depend on the position and angle of the housing stop on the frame, length of your derailleur hanger and your b-tension adjustment.
Also to clarify your statement about "SRAM" requiring a longer loop of housing at the rear derailleur, this is true for road groups but the complete opposite is the case for MTB groups (on my SRAM X9 equipped MTB the cable housing is so short it's almost a straight line, and shifting is accurate, crisp and light). I know the thread is about Rival, but it would be simple enough for someone googling "SRAM rear derailleur shifting cable loop" to stumble on this thread and try exactly the wrong approach to troubleshooting their MTB shifting.
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