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  #2801  
Old 04-28-12, 21:06
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Alpe d'Huez Alpe d'Huez is offline
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Originally Posted by Bala Verde View Post
I wouldn't trust any map published by Spin Dr. Karl (is he named after Marx?) 'gopaganda' Rove.
I understand. But did you look closely at the map? I thought the map was pretty objective, and certainly not that biased towards Romney. Out of all the recent maps I've seen, it seems the most accurate.
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  #2802  
Old 04-28-12, 21:17
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Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
I understand. But did you look closely at the map? I thought the map was pretty objective, and certainly not that biased towards Romney. Out of all the recent maps I've seen, it seems the most accurate.
Bala is saying its deliberately being biased not towards Romney but against him, in order to scare the GOP into donating, but I don't see it.

Most politicos believe being optimistic is a far better way to motivate your side. The SC dem chairman for example responded by saying "for once I agree with Rove, every state is in play".

The republicans that have been taking the pessimistic view are the ones who are saying that Gop should abandon romney and focus entirely on congress, so if there was any strategy behind the map it would most probably be Rove saying GOP should forget about the White House for 2012.

But if you look at the numbers underneath the letters for each state, you can see the map is entirely based on polling, in SC's case the most recent poll (from December) being Obama +3 then Rove puts it down as a toss up, and you can see the "-3%"
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  #2803  
Old 04-28-12, 23:35
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Alpe d'Huez Alpe d'Huez is offline
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Good point Hitch.

Of course, anyone can make a map from polls.
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  #2804  
Old 04-29-12, 03:03
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The "Etch-a-sketch" campaign has begun.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1461805.html

...and Huffington Post's electoral college map. Pretty similar to the others posted.
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/general
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  #2805  
Old 04-29-12, 12:18
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Originally Posted by Cobber View Post
The "Etch-a-sketch" campaign has begun.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1461805.html
]
Pretty funny that Obama supporters are making fun of Romney for being a blatant liar and opportunist.
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  #2806  
Old 04-29-12, 19:00
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Alpe d'Huez Alpe d'Huez is offline
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Originally Posted by Cobber View Post
The "Etch-a-sketch" campaign has begun...
I like this part:

Top Mitt Romney adviser Eric Fehrnstrom claimed that President Obama's auto bailout was the GOP presidential hopeful's idea. ..."The only economic success that President Obama has had is because he followed Mitt Romney's advice," Fehrnstrom added.

Say what???

Quote:
...and Huffington Post's electoral college map.
Interesting that they have both Nevada and Colorado even, while all others have them leaning Obama. But they have NH solid Obama, when others have it a tossup.
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  #2807  
Old 04-30-12, 16:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
I like this part:

Top Mitt Romney adviser Eric Fehrnstrom claimed that President Obama's auto bailout was the GOP presidential hopeful's idea. ..."The only economic success that President Obama has had is because he followed Mitt Romney's advice," Fehrnstrom added.

Say what???
Maybe someone should point out to Fehrnstrom that Obama also followed Mitt Romney's advice on health care reform?

But anyway, this is Romney's problem. He can only run as the experienced business dude who makes the wise and learned business decisions, so it has to be twisted around as much as possible to portray Romney as being on the right side of everything business-related. If it becomes common knowledge that he was wrong, as he was on the auto bailouts - and not only wrong, but 180 degrees wrong - his credibility in the one area that could get him elected is shot and he's toast.

btw, remember when Romney was for stimulus spending, infrastructure spending, and investment in renewable energy?

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...an/mitt-romney

Last edited by VeloCity; 04-30-12 at 16:23.
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  #2808  
Old 04-30-12, 16:26
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Originally Posted by VeloCity View Post
Maybe someone should point out to Fehrnstrom that Obama also followed Mitt Romney's advice on health care reform?

But anyway, this is Romney's problem. He can only run as the experienced business dude who makes the wise and learned business decisions, so it has to be twisted around as much as possible to portray Romney as being on the right side of everything business-related. If it becomes common knowledge that he was wrong, as he was on the auto bailouts - and not only wrong, but 180 degrees wrong - his credibility in the one area that could get him elected is shot and he's toast.

The funny thing is GM would still be around without the bailout. That's what bankruptcy is for (and they filed anyway).

The big difference is the structural problems that still exist would have been dealt with. Essentially, what the administration did was flush bond holders and replace them with the UAW as a stakeholder. Oh, and flush 30 or 40 billion dollars. But who's counting anymore, right?

Btw, does it bother you that GM took advantage of the tax code and paid zero taxes on billions in profit last year? Yeah, I didn't think it would.

And what does GM make? Oh yes, fossil fuel burning internal combustion engines placed in automobiles that transport individuals. Defending GM must present quite a conflict for you.
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  #2809  
Old 04-30-12, 18:27
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Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
The funny thing is GM would still be around without the bailout. That's what bankruptcy is for (and they filed anyway).

The big difference is the structural problems that still exist would have been dealt with. Essentially, what the administration did was flush bond holders and replace them with the UAW as a stakeholder. Oh, and flush 30 or 40 billion dollars. But who's counting anymore, right?

Btw, does it bother you that GM took advantage of the tax code and paid zero taxes on billions in profit last year? Yeah, I didn't think it would.

And what does GM make? Oh yes, fossil fuel burning internal combustion engines placed in automobiles that transport individuals. Defending GM must present quite a conflict for you.
Well, let's look at what Romney said back then, in his own words:

Quote:
If General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won’t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.
Hmm. Not exactly prescient, was he. And singing a bit of a different tune now, ain't he. It must present quite a conflict for you that by trying to take credit, Romney is tacitly admitting that Obama was right.

GM also makes the Volt. And without the bailout stimulus, there would be no revival of the electric car industry in the US, nor would the automakers have ever agreed to the raising of CAFE standards. The stimulus gave the feds the leverage to push for both. Now if we had listened to the Romney's, we really would be stuck with a fossil-fuel-based, low mileage auto industry well into the future...if there were an auto industry at all, that is.

But really, this simply goes back to your inability to accept that sometimes government has to step in where markets fail.

EDIT: Even The Economist admits that it was wrong in initially agreeing with Romney.

Quote:
Free-marketeers that we are, The Economist agreed with Mr Romney at the time. But we later apologised for that position. "Had the government not stepped in, GM might have restructured under normal bankruptcy procedures, without putting public money at risk", we said. But "given the panic that gripped private purse-strings...it is more likely that GM would have been liquidated, sending a cascade of destruction through the supply chain on which its rivals, too, depended." Even Ford, which avoided bankruptcy, feared the industry would collapse if GM went down. At the time that seemed like a real possibility. The credit markets were bone-dry, making the privately financed bankruptcy that Mr Romney favoured improbable. He conveniently ignores this bit of history in claiming to have been right all along.
[url]
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...d-car-industry
http://www.economist.com/node/16846494

Last edited by VeloCity; 04-30-12 at 19:46.
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  #2810  
Old 04-30-12, 19:49
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Yep. The Republicans are the problem all right.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...UlT_print.html
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