Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1011  
Old 05-02-12, 15:44
thehog thehog is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post
Andy doesn't want his kids ever confessing if they have nothing left to lose. He wants them going down fighting!!!
Yes I'm learning a lot on this forum about honesty and how it should be conducted. There are several rules and levels to it and its based on how much money you have.

I'll need to start writing some of this stuff down because its getting a little confusing. I may need a whiteboard and some graph paper to go into the advanced complexities of how it should be conducted.

I used to think it was so simple but now I'm not so sure.

Maybe Bono can help me understand?

@lancearmstrong Sometimes, my friend, the lie is ugly but the truth is unbearable.

- Thanks Bono.

Last edited by thehog; 05-02-12 at 15:49.
Reply With Quote
  #1012  
Old 05-02-12, 16:09
andy1234 andy1234 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post
Andy doesn't want his kids ever confessing if they have nothing left to lose. He wants them going down fighting!!!
Quite the opposite, I want them to realise that honesty is a virtue that you take through your life, not something you pull out when the sh1t hits the fan.

Its not a difficult concept.
Reply With Quote
  #1013  
Old 05-02-12, 16:26
MarkvW's Avatar
MarkvW MarkvW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,033
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger View Post
Hopefully his lawyer skills are better than his accountancy skills or you'd be as well off emailing Sesame Street asking them to explain Quo Tum.
Back 2010 Floyd was poor. Floyd admitted it to Bonnie Ford. Yet, as theHog pointed out earlier, Floyd had lawyers "advising" him. Wilson Sonsini firm. Digger might know of it. Advertises that it does whistleblower qui tam cases.

Floyd also filed his qui tam whistleblower complaint at about that time. Poor man files lawsuit against rich man. Complicated contract fraud case. Needs lawyer help. Floyd can't afford to pay for a lawyer. Voilá! American contingent fee attorneys who take the case on spec for a cut of the eventual return (if any). It is the only possible explanation (unless Floyd was lying about being poor).

So here are the definitions:

Qui Tam: Money (if Floyd wins). Floyd's motivation to spill the beans. As old as time itself.
Contingent Fee: Money (if Floyd wins). The motivation of Floyd's attorneys to help Floyd with the Qui Tam.
Reply With Quote
  #1014  
Old 05-02-12, 16:34
thehog thehog is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
Back 2010 Floyd was poor. Floyd admitted it to Bonnie Ford. Yet, as theHog pointed out earlier, Floyd had lawyers "advising" him. Wilson Sonsini firm. Digger might know of it. Advertises that it does whistleblower qui tam cases.

Floyd also filed his qui tam whistleblower complaint at about that time. Poor man files lawsuit against rich man. Complicated contract fraud case. Needs lawyer help. Floyd can't afford to pay for a lawyer. Voilá! American contingent fee attorneys who take the case on spec for a cut of the eventual return (if any). It is the only possible explanation (unless Floyd was lying about being poor).

So here are the definitions:

Qui Tam: Money (if Floyd wins). Floyd's motivation to spill the beans. As old as time itself.
Contingent Fee: Money (if Floyd wins). The motivation of Floyd's attorneys to help Floyd with the Qui Tam.
Thanks Mark. I was impressed with your work on Zillow.Com the other day.

Do you have some links to back up some of this detail you have provided? Its certainly interesting information.

You appear to know a little about how this works. Could you provide more detail? Links to what you describe?

Is this insider information you have?
Reply With Quote
  #1015  
Old 05-02-12, 16:40
thehog thehog is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1234 View Post
Quite the opposite, I want them to realise that honesty is a virtue that you take through your life, not something you pull out when the sh1t hits the fan.

Its not a difficult concept.
So when the sh!t does hit the fan you don't confess? you don't display honesty?

Could you draw out a timeline for when its appropriate to be honest and when not? What rating system are you using to determine at what point honesty becomes faux-honesty?

You have to be kidding me.

Honesty is honesty. It doesn't always heal past mistakes or make them go away but to be honest is the virtue. Once there its not rated upon how it was achieved.

Life is full of fables of how honesty and lesson were learnt. Its a journey.
Reply With Quote
  #1016  
Old 05-02-12, 16:40
MarkvW's Avatar
MarkvW MarkvW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,033
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1234 View Post
Quite the opposite, I want them to realise that honesty is a virtue that you take through your life, not something you pull out when the sh1t hits the fan.

Its not a difficult concept.
Floyd's honesty only appeared after he positively falsely fought the doping battle to the very bitter end. Floyd 's "honesty" is just a tool deployed in his latest battle to get money out of Armstrong/Tailwind.

I'm rooting for Floyd to take Lance down, just like I rooted for Sammy the Bull Gravano to take John Gotti down.
Reply With Quote
  #1017  
Old 05-02-12, 16:48
Digger Digger is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
Back 2010 Floyd was poor. Floyd admitted it to Bonnie Ford. Yet, as theHog pointed out earlier, Floyd had lawyers "advising" him. Wilson Sonsini firm. Digger might know of it. Advertises that it does whistleblower qui tam cases.

Floyd also filed his qui tam whistleblower complaint at about that time. Poor man files lawsuit against rich man. Complicated contract fraud case. Needs lawyer help. Floyd can't afford to pay for a lawyer. Voilá! American contingent fee attorneys who take the case on spec for a cut of the eventual return (if any). It is the only possible explanation (unless Floyd was lying about being poor).

So here are the definitions:

Qui Tam: Money (if Floyd wins). Floyd's motivation to spill the beans. As old as time itself.
Contingent Fee: Money (if Floyd wins). The motivation of Floyd's attorneys to help Floyd with the Qui Tam.
This is interesting.
Why do you accept as gospel what suits you?
__________________
“If you consider my situation: a guy who comes back from arguably, you know, a death sentence, why would I then enter into a sport and dope myself up and risk my life again? That's crazy. I would never do that. No. No way."

"Yes, there were six samples with EPO in it, and there were another two samples where it was pretty plain to a trained observer that there was synthetic EPO in those as well." Michael Ashenden on '99 samples
Reply With Quote
  #1018  
Old 05-02-12, 16:48
andy1234 andy1234 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehog View Post
So when the sh!t does hit the fan you don't confess? you don't display honesty?

Could you draw out a timeline for when its appropriate to be honest and when not? What rating system are you using to determine at what point honesty becomes faux-honesty?

You have to be kidding me.

Honesty is honesty. It doesn't always heal past mistakes or make them go away but to be honest is the virtue. Once there its not rated upon how it was achieved.

Life is full of fables of how honesty and lesson were learnt. Its a journey.
You clearly are capable of taking people at their word, regardless of their actions painting a different picture.

I prefer to judge people over the many actions they have taken in their lives, rather than just the one. It seems fairer.
Reply With Quote
  #1019  
Old 05-02-12, 16:51
BotanyBay's Avatar
BotanyBay BotanyBay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,897
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
Floyd's honesty only appeared after he positively falsely fought the doping battle to the very bitter end. Floyd 's "honesty" is just a tool deployed in his latest battle to get money out of Armstrong/Tailwind.

I'm rooting for Floyd to take Lance down, just like I rooted for Sammy the Bull Gravano to take John Gotti down.
My sentiments too. Nice job.

And further, Floyd's mostly-honesty only appeared well-after he positively falsely fought that battle. He waited until literally everything (and everyone) around him crashed to the ground. Only when he was left standing fully alone did he act. He was even willing to keep perpetuating the lie while riding for Bahati's team and living on top-ramen noodles. He only began the process of coming clean when he no longer had that team to ride for.

And I still feel that he left-out that one key tidbit of admission. The testosterone of July '06.
Reply With Quote
  #1020  
Old 05-02-12, 16:59
thehog thehog is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1234 View Post
You clearly are capable of taking people at their word, regardless of their actions painting a different picture.

I prefer to judge people over the many actions they have taken in their lives, rather than just the one. It seems fairer.
I am. I agree. I do take them on their word. And I also take them based upon their actions.

Seeing Floyd has openly displayed and expressed a sincere amount of regret about his past actions including making a phone call to Greg LeMond to apologise I value those actions. Its a good start.

It can't of been easy knowing the reactions and retribution he was about to face.

For sure it does't erase his history. But it does go a long way to explain the reasons why he did the things he did. Its not an excuse but its a reason.

I value the fact that against tremendous and continued opposition he started to tell the story. Even in the face of name calling, harassment, inferences to his drinking habits and on this forum ridcule about his family he has remained steadfast on the story.

I don't have a problem if you feel ripped off by him or hurt by his past actions. He has expressed that this is the case - his honesty doesn't erase the past hurt. But its a great start and something cycling and of a bigger question philosophically the world could do with a bit more of - honesty.

From Wall St to Austin - a wee bit of honesty would go a long way. No matter how we got to that point. Its welcomed.

I really don't think he was expecting a medal for coming clean but on a human level he does deserve some gratitude to telling the real story of Pro Cycling. I think even you could appreciate how hard it must have been for him to come this far. We don't want another Pantani. That would do nothing for this world nor cycling. This is actually a human life we're talking about.

Last edited by thehog; 05-02-12 at 17:09.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.