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  #101  
Old 05-06-12, 00:24
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Originally Posted by rgmerk View Post
Cycling Tips on his one-year experience with 404 Firecrest clinchers (read the comment at the end, not the initial review).

He and his teammates had a litany of problems with spokes, hubs, and rims, culminating in a blowout on a high-speed descent.

It should be pointed out that he's a big guy (probably up around the 80 kg mark), and an absolute watt monster when he's in the mood. But it's also very unusual for him to say something less than complimentary about equipment.

My conclusions from this are:

1) I'm sticking with tubs on carbon rims for now, even though they are a massive logistical PITA.
2) When I get a new set of race wheels made up, I'm getting them custom built with robust hubs.
Good of you to provide that link. Everyone should read it.

I have re-built more Zipp wheels than most. my shop being in Indy. They are everything the author says except count on replacing the bearings every year. I have taken tours of their facilities three times, last time last year. Beware. There is a kool aid jug in every room.
One reason for lack of durability is their wheels are tested for a 135 lb rider. Seriously. I asked why they said it was industry standard. Find it hard to believe. I've had so much trouble with Zipp I would never recommend them to anyone. Except maybe triathlete that doesn't use them much, but I've seen them even blow them up because the wheels are so weak.
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  #102  
Old 05-06-12, 03:05
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Originally Posted by Giuseppe Magnetico View Post
Full custom, meaning you find a reputable wheel builder, I know a few here on the forum, or you maybe have one right in your hood. When you do full custom all the parts and lacing patterns are based on your weight, riding style, condition of roads you use, purpose, race/train/both. The wheel is the most dynamic and important part of a bicycle. Great wheels will make a mediocre frame ride much better, it doesn't work the other way around.
Good advice, but I don't want some 1700 gram boat anchors just because some wheel builder thinks that wheel is going to last me 20 years. I want a wheel that looks good. I may sell it in 2 years or 1. I want something that, when it look at it, it screams "lets' go ride!". I don't care about some 32 spoke Ambrosio box section rims because they're a great throwback to the 1980s.

So, I'm basically left with having no wheelbuilder who can direct me towards what I want: a sub 1500g wheelset with great hubs and moderately aero profile. I end up buying factory wheels because it's easier and because I can pay $1 for 2 years of zero worry.
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  #103  
Old 05-06-12, 03:36
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Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles View Post
So, I'm basically left with having no wheelbuilder who can direct me towards what I want: a sub 1500g wheelset with great hubs and moderately aero profile. I end up buying factory wheels because it's easier and because I can pay $1 for 2 years of zero worry.
I dunno whom you've approached, but that's precisely what my custom wheelbuilder supplied me with. And they were great - until I got a second bike and decided that my race wheels could stay on the race bike most of the time, and that I'd prefer cheaper, tougher wheels with a pile of spokes for training.
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  #104  
Old 05-06-12, 05:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles View Post
Good advice, but I don't want some 1700 gram boat anchors just because some wheel builder thinks that wheel is going to last me 20 years. I want a wheel that looks good. I may sell it in 2 years or 1. I want something that, when it look at it, it screams "lets' go ride!". I don't care about some 32 spoke Ambrosio box section rims because they're a great throwback to the 1980s.

So, I'm basically left with having no wheelbuilder who can direct me towards what I want: a sub 1500g wheelset with great hubs and moderately aero profile. I end up buying factory wheels because it's easier and because I can pay $1 for 2 years of zero worry.
I can build a lighter set than 1500g, more like 1100g. ENVE 25's, custom pc'd Spaim CX Rays in Giro pink, Alchemy hubs. That set would give anyone wood.
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Last edited by Giuseppe Magnetico; 05-06-12 at 06:23.
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  #105  
Old 05-06-12, 05:15
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Originally Posted by rgmerk View Post
I dunno whom you've approached, but that's precisely what my custom wheelbuilder supplied me with. And they were great - until I got a second bike and decided that my race wheels could stay on the race bike most of the time, and that I'd prefer cheaper, tougher wheels with a pile of spokes for training.
Train heavy-race light is something that is lost on people these days, it's more important to look fast rather than be fast to some people. 32h3x laced to double eyeletted box section rims isn't dated at all still make for the best builds which equates to the best daily riding set up out there.
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  #106  
Old 05-06-12, 07:49
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Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles View Post
Good advice, but I don't want some 1700 gram boat anchors just because some wheel builder thinks that wheel is going to last me 20 years. I want a wheel that looks good. I may sell it in 2 years or 1. I want something that, when it look at it, it screams "lets' go ride!". I don't care about some 32 spoke Ambrosio box section rims because they're a great throwback to the 1980s.

So, I'm basically left with having no wheelbuilder who can direct me towards what I want: a sub 1500g wheelset with great hubs and moderately aero profile. I end up buying factory wheels because it's easier and because I can pay $1 for 2 years of zero worry.
Come on dude - only a throwback to maybe 2004, when Robbie was still riding them in the sprints. I could make mine 1500g pretty easy, but I am 85kg and like the extra stiffness sprinting.



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  #107  
Old 05-06-12, 12:29
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Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles View Post
Good advice, but I don't want some 1700 gram boat anchors just because some wheel builder thinks that wheel is going to last me 20 years. I want a wheel that looks good. I may sell it in 2 years or 1. I want something that, when it look at it, it screams "lets' go ride!". I don't care about some 32 spoke Ambrosio box section rims because they're a great throwback to the 1980s.

So, I'm basically left with having no wheelbuilder who can direct me towards what I want: a sub 1500g wheelset with great hubs and moderately aero profile. I end up buying factory wheels because it's easier and because I can pay $1 for 2 years of zero worry.
What I have seen locally for under $500
- 27 mm deep niobium alloy rim - 445 g.
- UltraLight 6-pawl 277 g hubset.
- Sapim Laser spokes front and rear.
- Alloy nipples front and rear non-drive. Brass nipples drive side.
- 20 spoke front - 1x lacing. 24 spoke rear - 2x/2x lacing.
- Sealed Enduro cartridge bearings.
- Weight: 610g front, 780g rear
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  #108  
Old 05-06-12, 13:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles View Post
Good advice, but I don't want some 1700 gram boat anchors just because some wheel builder thinks that wheel is going to last me 20 years. I want a wheel that looks good. I may sell it in 2 years or 1. I want something that, when it look at it, it screams "lets' go ride!". I don't care about some 32 spoke Ambrosio box section rims because they're a great throwback to the 1980s.

So, I'm basically left with having no wheelbuilder who can direct me towards what I want: a sub 1500g wheelset with great hubs and moderately aero profile. I end up buying factory wheels because it's easier and because I can pay $1 for 2 years of zero worry.
So Moose, what do you weigh?

Say you are a slim moose, at 170 pounds, average bicycle at 16 pounds....that means that 186 pounds are 84,000 grams, plus or minus....

so I wouldn't fret about 200 grams BUT it's easy to build a wheelset that has good hubs, moderate aero, 1500 grams...like Guiseppe said..easy.

$1 IS zero worry, except swapping to your 'other' wheel while it goes back for service.
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  #109  
Old 05-06-12, 14:22
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Thanks for the comments, guys. I am 172 lbs. I'm not a big fan of carbon clinchers though, so that's not really an option. I own two pairs, but they're not ideal for the long mountain descents here.

I would prefer some 25mm-35mm clinchers with alloy surface, Sapim spokes, CK hubs (or DT/Tune) etc. I just don't see handbuilts here much, and nobody really seems to do it, so I don't have a wheelbuilder that I know.

How do you guys find wheelbuilders? You must have them locally. It's more of a convenience thing to just buy factory for me, honestly.
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  #110  
Old 05-06-12, 15:43
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Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles View Post
Thanks for the comments, guys. I am 172 lbs. I'm not a big fan of carbon clinchers though, so that's not really an option. I own two pairs, but they're not ideal for the long mountain descents here.

I would prefer some 25mm-35mm clinchers with alloy surface, Sapim spokes, CK hubs (or DT/Tune) etc. I just don't see handbuilts here much, and nobody really seems to do it, so I don't have a wheelbuilder that I know.

How do you guys find wheelbuilders? You must have them locally. It's more of a convenience thing to just buy factory for me, honestly.
You need to forget about this whole carbon clincher with alloy braking surface junk, it's dated tech and HED is really the only one that makes a wheel like that anymore. What you really need is a fully alloy rimmed wheel for your mountain rides with really nice hubs. Velocity A23 rims, Alchemy hubs, Sapim spokes. 24h 2x front, 28h 2x rear. Insert what ever color you want for rims, spokes, and hubs. That's also a sub 1500g set, and will ride better than any of that garbage you've been buying.

Where in the world do you live that's seemingly void of wheel builders? FYI, I can ship wheel sets pretty much anywhere in the US for about 20 bucks.

Don't keep riding those crap fast food wheels that you buy new every other year! Stop supporting companies that whose business model is based volume, not quality!!
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Last edited by Giuseppe Magnetico; 05-06-12 at 16:25.
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