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  #21  
Old 12-26-10, 12:51
theyoungest theyoungest is offline
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Most of the current Australian youngsters are fast, have a good time trial, or a mixture of both. That's probably due to their track background. There isn't really any GC talent coming up, though. The only young Aussie climber I know of is Timmy Roe. Matthews is also a pretty decent climber, but for now he's more likely to develop into a sprinter. So it really depends on what you value in a crop of talent to consider Australia the most promising nation.
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  #22  
Old 12-26-10, 13:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig1985 View Post
Wes Sulzburger has been around for a few years now.
Still only 25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney21 View Post
Trav Meyer
Cam Meyer
Bobridge
Howard
Goss
Roe
Docker
Wes Sulzburger
Matthews
Dennis
Walker
Lachie Norris
Durbridge
Hepburn
Freiburg
Tom Palmer
Ben King

Who Have I missed?? (obv not including Richie Porte and Haussler)
Johnny Walker
Tanner?

Shed-loads of talent in the teams of Drapac, Jayco and Genesys too.

I think Australia has had a "boom" in cyclists. The likes of Rogers, O'Grady, McEwen, Evans stand out and then you have riders such as Davis, Lloyd, Cooke, Brown, Lancaster up there as well. I don't think 10 years ago there was such Aussie talent in the European peloton. Most of these stars are ageing now (some have retired eg McGee) but now there's emerging talent all over its hard to say whether these riders were part of a golden generation or just a platform for more success. I think its ben great and a privledge to see cyclists from here mix it with the likes of those from Italy, Spain, Belgium etc and I hope the standard will be maintained.

Oh and "best ever" is a purely subjective so I'm not going to comment on that...
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  #23  
Old 12-26-10, 13:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney21 View Post
Trav Meyer
Cam Meyer
Bobridge
Howard
Goss
Roe
Docker
Wes Sulzburger
Matthews
Dennis
Walker
Lachie Norris
Durbridge
Hepburn
Freiburg
Tom Palmer
Ben King

Who Have I missed?? (obv not including Richie Porte and Haussler)
It's impossible to draw any conclusions about a crop of riders this early. I bet that a chunk of those riders will possibly not even by riding in five years and only 5-8 of them or something like that will have a full respectable career. That just how it goes. If you look at The Hitch's list of italians from 69-74 then that is only the riders that made it. If you would have made a list of them in 1994 then there would have probably been 30 riders that were all promising riders but most of them fell through.

In the early 2000s we had a very talented bunch of riders in Sweden based in two TT3 teams with Team Crescent dominating the domestic scene completely and having success in europe as well and Team Mälarenergi that also had a respectable team. A similar list at that time in Sweden would have been:

Gustav Larsson
Thomas Löfkvist
Fredrik Kessiakoff
Jonas Ljungblad
Stefan Adamsson
Petter Renäng
Fredrik Modin
Tobias Lergård
Jonas Olsson
jonas Holmqvist
Kristoffer Ingeby

Out of these only 5 riders ended up even reaching the top levels of the sport while the others all retired early despite being just as talented as the ones that made it. Jonas Olsson was an even better TTer than Gustav Larsson and won the european u-23 TT championship but he never managed to get a pro contract. Jonas Holmkvist had 8 victories in UCI classified races by the age of 22 and a year later he was retired.

My point is that having talents is one thing but reaching the top of the sport and having success there is a long way off from that. You don't know until after the fact who is going to make it.
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  #24  
Old 12-26-10, 13:56
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Originally Posted by simo1733 View Post
Are the current crop of young Aussie pro's the best they have ever had?
Possibly, certainly in a fair few years, but lets ask again in 5 years and see which of these riders actually have any longevity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simo1733 View Post
Are they in fact the best that any country has ever had!
No, not by a long shot.

Last edited by TeamSkyFans; 12-26-10 at 13:58.
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  #25  
Old 12-26-10, 14:29
simo1733 simo1733 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Id like to nominate italy 15 years ago for this.

1969-1974

Ivan Gotti -1969 2 times winner of Giro d Italia
Gilberto Simoni - 1971 2 times winner of Giro d italia
Marco Pantani - 1970 Winner of Giro d Italia and Tour de France in same year
Alessandro Petacchi - 1974 Gt points jersey Grand slam, + MSR and PT
Davide Rebellin - 1971 Several great races including Ardennes sweep in 1 week
Paolo Bettini- 1974 Winner of 5 of the 7 biggest 1 dayers, MSR, LBL, GDL, WRR,ORR
Gabriele Colombo-1972 Winner of Milan SanRemo.
Paolo Savoldelli -1973 2 times winner of Giro D Italia
Stefano Garzelli -1973 Winner of Giro D Italia
Michele Bartoli - 1970 Ardennes sweep, RVV and Lombardia.


They didnt turn out too bad. By comparison if this Aussy golden generation achieves just ONE of the above feats ill be surprised.

Or if you want you can take out Bettini Salvodeli and Garzeli for Cipo. And behind the scenes theres successes like Piepoli and Bruzhegin, also this generation.

A side note to the still developing Spain 1978- 83 generation. Alberto Contador, Alejandro Valverde, Oscar Pereiro, Samuel Sanchez have all won big. Luis Joaquim Rodriguez, Luis Leon Sanchez, Igor Anton maybe will.

Again, well beyond what the Aussy crop can hope to achieve.
You are right.That Italian list is pretty usefull.You may have missed a couple.
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  #26  
Old 12-26-10, 14:39
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The other thing is, Hitch's list of Italians was only those who'd won monuments or GTs; there are a great deal of other Italians from that generation who carved out successful careers without ever being as successful:

Dario Andriotto (1972) - still riding today with Acqua e Sapone
Fortunato Baliani (1974) - had a few successes in the Giro, riding for Miche
Wladimir Belli (1970) - podiums at Romandie, Suisse and País Vasco, top 10s at Giro and Tour
Alessandro Bertolini (1972) - winner of a Giro stage and multiple domestic wins including 2 wins at the Giro dell'Apennino
Marzio Bruseghin (1974) - podium GC and stage wins of the Giro, top 10 of the Vuelta
Francesco Casagrande (1970) - 2nd and KOM at the Giro, top 10 of Vuelta, multiple wins of Trentino, winner of Suisse, San Sebastián and lots more besides
Mirko Celestino (1974) - winner of Lombardia and 2nd at Sanremo
Dario Cioni (1974) - 4th in the Giro
Massimo Codol (1973) - still riding for Acqua e Sapone after 12 years
Dario Frigo (1972) - winner of Paris-Nice, multiple winner of Romandie, stage winner of Tour and Giro
Massimiliano Gentili (1971) - just retired after final year with Ceramica Flaminia
Massimo Giunti (1974) - many years of solid service, now provisionally suspended
Fabrizio Guidi (1972) - winner of Giro stage, multiple Intergiros and 2nd in points jersey race
Luca Mazzanti (1974) - still racing at Katyusha after many years of good results
Eddy Mazzoleni (1973) - Giro podium
Cristian Moreni (1972) - many stage podiums at the Giro
Andrea Noè (1969) - 4th in the Giro twice, still riding now
Leonardo Piepoli (1971) - stages of all 3 GTs, Giro KOM, top 10 Vuelta
Ivan Quaranta (1974) - multiple Giro stages
Filippo Simeoni (1971) - Vuelta stage winner, national champ, was still riding until 2009
Massimo Strazzer (1969) - multiple Intergiro winner, Giro points jersey and multiple Giro stage winner
Matteo Tosatto (1974) - many years of consistent service
Marco Velo (1974) - likewise
Stefano Zanini (1969) - Intergiro winner

Even if ALL of the current Aussie prospects turn out as good as they can be, they'll struggle to beat that generation.
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  #27  
Old 12-26-10, 15:17
profff profff is offline
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about hitch' s italians list and libertine adjunts:

the list it is not completely correct: it mixes riders of different generations, with different backgrounds
a very strong generation includes pantani , simoni, rebellin, wladimir belli, ivan gotti, bartoli. in that generation the strongest in the U23 were considered belli and alessandro bertolini , who had deceiving career compared to the others. he came back into the light in the last years with win in giro stages and italian semiclassics.

another generation of strong riders, with different story and background includes bettini, diluca, figueras, malberti ( not in that order, but the first four at lugano worlds U23, with malberti winning the crono), savoldelli, garzelli. malberti was considered the great italian hope for gt, he was compared to indurain according to italian experts and he ended up doing nothing. paolo bettini was the less considered of that bunch, he started the career as bartoli's domestique and he was able to race on his own only after his first liege win ( he was able to run the doyenne on his own just because bartoli was injured..).
figuera was also very considered, but he was unlucky and had not the right mind strenght.

that just to put things in the right historical perspective.
italy at that time was by far the leading nation in cycling, for many reason.
even considering that, some riders which were considered as "fuoriclasse" did less than expected.

australia today is a nation in which cycling is growing very fast.
the riders come from a different bakground and it is very difficult to imagine what they can do in the road peloton.
but they already had classy riders, from mcgee to evans ( i do not forget anderson and the oldies,but they were isolated cases), so aussies now know that they can be successful in the road peloton.
they have a better chance to know what is needed to success.
a culture of good proriders is a growing process and in my opinion they have a good chance to be a leading nation in few years.
they have been a leading nation in track cycling and they can do the same on the road. i
they just need luck and dedication...
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  #28  
Old 12-26-10, 15:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profff View Post
about hitch' s italians list and libertine adjunts:

the list it is not completely correct: it mixes riders of different generations, with different backgrounds
Generation isnt an exact thing. I just took riders over a 5 year period. If you want, you can take away Ivan Gotti and you have 9 great champions from a 4 year period.

In 1994 they would have all been 20-24, and not a single one of them had won a major yet. I think you could have called that a generation of up and comers and i think looking back you can call them a generation of success.
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  #29  
Old 12-26-10, 15:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profff View Post
about hitch' s italians list and libertine adjunts:

the list it is not completely correct: it mixes riders of different generations, with different backgrounds
But the original hypothesis of the thread blended the likes of Matthews with the likes of Porte, who are also different "generations" if you take that narrow definition. I don't really call a 2-3 year age group a "generation", more 5-6 and possibly even more.
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  #30  
Old 12-26-10, 15:41
pmcg76 pmcg76 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Generation isnt an exact thing. I just took riders over a 5 year period. If you want, you can take away Ivan Gotti and you have 9 great champions from a 4 year period.

In 1994 they would have all been 20-24, and not a single one of them had won a major yet. I think you could have called that a generation of up and comers and i think looking back you can call them a generation of success.
Well if we take just the riders who turned pro post Olympics 92, it would still include:

Pantani
Bartoli
Simoni
Casagrande
Rebellin
Casartelli
Gotti
Peron
Lanfranchi
Belli
Guerini
Piccoli

Not a bad generation even if its a bit tainted now.
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