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  #21  
Old 02-21-11, 02:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xmoonx View Post
Thanks! nice video. I also hope he does well. Although I seriously doubt he'll crack the top 5.

Following that video thread; I came across this analysis by Chris Horner of AC's acceleration (stage 17, 09, TDF), which basically dropped Klodi.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ituh5...eature=related
Chris is angry because Klodi getting dropped cost him prise money. The reality is Kloden lost a minute on the descent that day and also lost time the week before when he dropped back to pace old man lance up the climb after they had both popped chasing their teammate.
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  #22  
Old 02-21-11, 04:30
xmoonx xmoonx is offline
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Originally Posted by cyclopeon View Post
Puleeze!! Horner never analyzed spit. Although I admit he sounds credible talking off the top of his head -- until one really listens!
While its entirely probable Kloden would have cracked regardless if Schleck & Co. attacked. The fact remains is that Contador attack put Kloden in trouble and dragged Schleck and Co. along for the ride.
The GC as it stood after stage 16:
General classification after stage 16
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 67:33:15
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:01:37
3 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:01:46
4 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0:02:17
5 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:26
6 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 0:02:51
7 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Française des Jeux 0:03:09
8 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:03:25

The GC as it stood after Contadors attack stage 17:
General classification after stage 17
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 72:27:09
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:26
3 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:03:25
4 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:03:55
5 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0:04:44

The only effective change in the GC is Alberto Contador successfully put > 2:30 in his teammates. Barring bonuses (which FS gained) AS & FS are at the same time gaps.

Say what you will those are the facts Jack!
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  #23  
Old 02-21-11, 07:34
SiAp1984 SiAp1984 is offline
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I guess Klöden still might be capable of a top10 finish in the Tour. Of course, last year's Tour has not exactly been a display of power by him, but if Chris Horner was able to get a top10-placing last year, Klöden should be able to do the same this year. He still is the better ITT-rider and he is a smart and constant climber. If all goes well and he maybe gets in a breakaway on a medium-hard stage gaining 1 or 2 minutes on the favorites, he'll be able to finish on places 6-10. If not, he might not improve his position from the last Tour.

Maybe he should concentrate on winning a stage, though. He is/was a decent sprinter for a GC-guy and has been close to winning a stage serveral times. A GT stage-win would definately be a nice ornament for his career.
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  #24  
Old 02-21-11, 14:19
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Originally Posted by xmoonx View Post
While its entirely probable Kloden would have cracked regardless if Schleck & Co. attacked. The fact remains is that Contador attack put Kloden in trouble and dragged Schleck and Co. along for the ride.
The GC as it stood after stage 16:
General classification after stage 16
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 67:33:15
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:01:37
3 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:01:46
4 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0:02:17
5 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:26
6 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 0:02:51
7 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Française des Jeux 0:03:09
8 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:03:25

The GC as it stood after Contadors attack stage 17:
General classification after stage 17
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 72:27:09
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:26
3 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:03:25
4 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:03:55
5 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0:04:44

The only effective change in the GC is Alberto Contador successfully put > 2:30 in his teammates. Barring bonuses (which FS gained) AS & FS are at the same time gaps.

Say what you will those are the facts Jack!
The fact is Kloden lost most of the time that day because he descended like a grandmother.
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  #25  
Old 02-21-11, 15:46
Polish Polish is offline
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Originally Posted by Race Radio View Post
Chris is angry because Klodi getting dropped cost him prise money. The reality is Kloden lost a minute on the descent that day and also lost time the week before when he dropped back to pace old man lance up the climb after they had both popped chasing their teammate.
This thread has NOTHING to do with "old man lance".
Geez give it a rest.

BTW, here is a Great Vid of a "Klodi Flyer" at the end of a TdF stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsv_7o3mQno
Go Klodi Go.
Wearing the French ooops German Nat'l Jersey.
Go Klodi - DON"T LOOK BACK.
"The race is in front of you"
oooops - no gifts sigh.
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  #26  
Old 02-21-11, 17:27
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is offline
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Originally Posted by McClimber View Post
Kloden totally has a chance to WIN!! Not just top 10.

If he was the team leader, he would kick ***.

Last year the whole team held him back. He has always been 2nd on the "team".

Give him freedom and he can do it.

Top 10 would be easy. Go for the win.
Klöden was designated leader at the 2008 Giro. He wasn't in form, and struggled. Leipheimer did too. When it came to the Vuelta, yes Contador was then the leader, but it was Leipheimer who was the 2nd in command.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmoonx View Post
While its entirely probable Kloden would have cracked regardless if Schleck & Co. attacked. The fact remains is that Contador attack put Kloden in trouble and dragged Schleck and Co. along for the ride.
The GC as it stood after stage 16:
General classification after stage 16
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 67:33:15
2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:01:37
3 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:01:46
4 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0:02:17
5 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:26
6 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 0:02:51
7 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Française des Jeux 0:03:09
8 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:03:25

The GC as it stood after Contadors attack stage 17:
General classification after stage 17
1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 72:27:09
2 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:26
3 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:03:25
4 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:03:55
5 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0:04:44

The only effective change in the GC is Alberto Contador successfully put > 2:30 in his teammates. Barring bonuses (which FS gained) AS & FS are at the same time gaps.

Say what you will those are the facts Jack!
There were no bonuses, which is why Andy and Fränk are at the same time gaps. The whole purpose of the exercise was getting Wiggins out of the picture; he'd been allowed to stay in too long for comfort thanks to the Astana soft-pedalling and the lack of aggression/appalling route in the Pyrenees. All of a sudden he was within 2 minutes halfway through week 3 with a 40km ITT left to come and with nobody sure how well he would climb since he hadn't REALLY been tested in the race yet. Do you want to leave a TT threat like Wiggins that close? What if you crash, or have a mechanical, in the TT? Armstrong, like Nibali, stayed with Wiggins when the first accelerations started; Alberto, Klödi and the Schlecks went ahead. Wiggins was the threat to Armstrong at the time, until the Schlecks got far enough up the road; by which point he had (completely correctly) sat on Wiggins' wheel, and could put time into him. At that point it was the Schlecks riding together (once they got to the top of the Colombière, Contador took no turns) vs. Klöden vs. Armstrong vs. Nibali vs. Wiggins all riding solo. No wonder Klöden lost time - his descending isn't on a par with Nibali and Armstrong had been able to sit on someone's wheel all the way up the Romme.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiAp1984 View Post
I guess Klöden still might be capable of a top10 finish in the Tour. Of course, last year's Tour has not exactly been a display of power by him, but if Chris Horner was able to get a top10-placing last year, Klöden should be able to do the same this year. He still is the better ITT-rider and he is a smart and constant climber. If all goes well and he maybe gets in a breakaway on a medium-hard stage gaining 1 or 2 minutes on the favorites, he'll be able to finish on places 6-10. If not, he might not improve his position from the last Tour.

Maybe he should concentrate on winning a stage, though. He is/was a decent sprinter for a GC-guy and has been close to winning a stage serveral times. A GT stage-win would definately be a nice ornament for his career.
Klöden can still top 10, for sure. But anything more would be putting pressure on him that he doesn't need or want. He will definitely be a threat of a top 10 place, but a podium? Not happening for my money.
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  #27  
Old 02-21-11, 18:53
patrick767 patrick767 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
There were no bonuses, which is why Andy and Fränk are at the same time gaps. The whole purpose of the exercise was getting Wiggins out of the picture; he'd been allowed to stay in too long for comfort thanks to the Astana soft-pedalling and the lack of aggression/appalling route in the Pyrenees. All of a sudden he was within 2 minutes halfway through week 3 with a 40km ITT left to come and with nobody sure how well he would climb since he hadn't REALLY been tested in the race yet. Do you want to leave a TT threat like Wiggins that close? What if you crash, or have a mechanical, in the TT? Armstrong, like Nibali, stayed with Wiggins when the first accelerations started; Alberto, Klödi and the Schlecks went ahead. Wiggins was the threat to Armstrong at the time, until the Schlecks got far enough up the road; by which point he had (completely correctly) sat on Wiggins' wheel, and could put time into him. At that point it was the Schlecks riding together (once they got to the top of the Colombière, Contador took no turns) vs. Klöden vs. Armstrong vs. Nibali vs. Wiggins all riding solo. No wonder Klöden lost time - his descending isn't on a par with Nibali and Armstrong had been able to sit on someone's wheel all the way up the Romme.
Makes sense to me. Plus I look at the race as a whole and have a very hard time criticizing the tactics of an Astana team that put their riders in first and third place overall in the TdF. No matter how good individual riders are, it takes a team effort and the results speak for themselves.

I wish Kloden luck this year. I think top ten is doable, but unfortunately I think he's also past his prime and top 5 is unlikely.
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  #28  
Old 02-21-11, 19:10
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  #29  
Old 02-21-11, 19:36
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Hugh Januss Hugh Januss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClimber View Post
Kloden totally has a chance to WIN!! Not just top 10.

If he was the team leader, he would kick ***.

Last year the whole team held him back. He has always been 2nd on the "team".

Give him freedom and he can do it.

Top 10 would be easy. Go for the win.
I don't believe Kloden equates being team leader with freedom as much as he equates it with pressure. He seems to always do his best rides when he is #2 on the team.
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  #30  
Old 02-21-11, 23:20
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Eric8-A Eric8-A is offline
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He'll place higher than Wiggo
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