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  #1871  
Old 12-09-12, 18:22
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oldcrank oldcrank is offline
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Originally Posted by cineteq View Post
Guys, that's a simplistic, black and white approach. Cycling...or life for that matter does nor work like that.
You should go back over about 4000 of your posts about
Sky and BMW then mate.

Pot, kettle, etc.
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  #1872  
Old 12-09-12, 19:11
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
It is just anti sky stance . I don't know what to say. )

Again, when Sky pull it works for others too. Aerodynamics laws work for all riders the same way. And if Froome pulls Wiggins whereas Nibali sucks Wiggins' wheel and then Nibali loses contact, it says Nibali is weaker than Wiggins on that particular day and nothing more. I don't see what you could oppose to Sky steady tempo. Maybe one's exposive attacks or overly successful long solo raids? Whose?

If Sky hadn't been that strong, I have difficulties to presume which team would take leading initiative instead of them. You present the things like... If Sky had been weak, we would see a cascade of beautiful resultative attacks and Wiggins would have lost him chances. 'Wiggins can not climb by himself' is an absolute myth. He climbed basically without team in 2009 and he did it more than adequately. It is obvious he got stronger in comparison to 2009. However, the forum almost unanimously ascribe the victory to the team... It is just other side of cycling in the mountains. Not very spectacular, temporizing, but often very effective. The thing that one may dislike it says only about sympathy/antipathy, but not about its strength. Strength and entertainment are often out of tune.
CVV says you're full of it...
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Definition of Wheelsucking:
When a rider refuses to take a pull even though it is tactically and/or strategically more sound to take a pull
*Refusing to pull when it is tactically and/or strategically more sound not to is therefore not wheelsucking
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  #1873  
Old 12-09-12, 19:17
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Originally Posted by Netserk View Post
CVV says you're full of it...
indeed, CVV paced wiggins for all but 2 kilometers of la grand colombiere and that was enough for wiggins to crack big time.

if wiggins didn't have the support he had at this years tour and had a team like evans had in 2011 he would be isolated pretty fast and most likely crack.

are we supposed to forget that before froomes resurgence to life on la toussuire wiggins was already 25 seconds down on the nibali group and losing time while pacing himself? hell froome pacing him back up on a climb with a low % where drag is very important put him at the limit for a while.
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  #1874  
Old 12-09-12, 19:57
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
It is just anti sky stance . I don't know what to say. )
Anti Sky? I am actually prasing Sky for being so strong that they are able to carry Wiggins to victory. While I might not enjoy the way Sky drove in the TOur, it was damn effecient and u gotta give them that not many team could have brought Wiggins to victory. Kudos for a job very well done by Sky.

Sure Wiggins climbs well, as long as the pace is steady. He prolly would have gone top 5 or maybe higher with a bad team, but in my opinion he wouldnt have won. They would have dared to attack him way earlier and the attacks on the descents would have paid of (the Sky team effort made sure they didnt). If Sky had a bad team no other team would have towed him to victory - they would have rode anti-wiggins (early attacks, change of rythm, attacking on descents etc). Sky was so strong that no1 could get away with that though. As said: job well done. Really a team victory.

Last edited by Cimber; 12-09-12 at 20:01.
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  #1875  
Old 12-09-12, 20:14
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Originally Posted by Netserk View Post
CVV says you're full of it...
VdV was pulling literally 3-4 k at Romme. Did it decide a lot?


OK, sorry, i'm wrong regardig 3-4 km. that was more. but anyways it didn't decide much. and i dont get what you want from wiggins. that he could go at speed of the schlecks who changed each other? colombier is pocked with 9% grades hence it is minimal draft. That helps wasn't decisive and no way point on the fact that Wiggins can climb alone.

Last edited by airstream; 12-09-12 at 20:41.
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  #1876  
Old 12-09-12, 20:34
Dutchsmurf Dutchsmurf is offline
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
Hm, why Wiggins should have worked on the front being yellow jersey and having one more TT in store? He is an idiot. Wiggins would have defended calmly approximately like Contador in 2010. Even in a more easy key due to lack of attacking climbers in this year's Tour.
How do you suggest he defends without working on the front? Contador won it in 2010 by reacting to Andy's attacks and sealing it in the ITT. Wiggins would have never been able to pull that off that first part, even with climbers less skilled as Andy. We actually saw that happen. Without Froome pulling him back, who knows what would have happened and how much time he would have lost. He would also have been more tired by the time the final ITT arrived.
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  #1877  
Old 12-09-12, 21:03
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
VdV was pulling literally 3-4 k at Romme. Did it decide a lot?


OK, sorry, i'm wrong regardig 3-4 km. that was more. but anyways it didn't decide much. and i dont get what you want from wiggins. that he could go at speed of the schlecks who changed each other? colombier is pocked with 9% grades hence it is minimal draft. That helps wasn't decisive and no way point on the fact that Wiggins can climb alone.
It's not only the draft, but the knowledge that you have a team-mate around in case of a mechanical. For some riders (Wiggins appear as such) it is very important mentally to have another (team-mate) to set the pace or hang around, so that one isn't 'alone'.
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Cancellara is like The Black Album. Really good but way overrated.
Quote:
Definition of Wheelsucking:
When a rider refuses to take a pull even though it is tactically and/or strategically more sound to take a pull
*Refusing to pull when it is tactically and/or strategically more sound not to is therefore not wheelsucking
Change my pitch up/Smack my bitch up
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  #1878  
Old 12-09-12, 21:20
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to be honest i think that even with a normal team wiggins would either win or be very close to winning the tour due to the easy mountain stages and amount of itt km's, but it would be far from the certain thing it was.

just some trivia with little value, the first bmc rider after evans in 2011 was morabito finishing 48th 1 hour and 37 minutes down.

porte was the forth sky rider finishing 34th 1hour and 20 minutes down. forth!!!!!
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  #1879  
Old 12-09-12, 21:59
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
Lol, he abandoned to prepare for the Olympics. If he really cared that much about his wife he would've been with her in the final 2 weeks and focused on the Vuelta instead.

Besides Maxim Monfort took a helicopter during the Tour to see his newborn kid and then returned to the Tour. So I call bogus on that.

He had no reason not to be in shape during the Tour of 2011 by the way.
Lol , your running out of reasons to hate Cancellara, so your making them up. Now your trying to say he doesn't even care about his wife .
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  #1880  
Old 12-09-12, 22:08
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Originally Posted by Parrulo View Post
to be honest i think that even with a normal team wiggins would either win or be very close to winning the tour due to the easy mountain stages and amount of itt km's, but it would be far from the certain thing it was.

just some trivia with little value, the first bmc rider after evans in 2011 was morabito finishing 48th 1 hour and 37 minutes down.

porte was the forth sky rider finishing 34th 1hour and 20 minutes down. forth!!!!!
Salvodelli was the worst case I can found, (feel free to find even worse case) his best teammate Pavel Padrnos was 60th, 2 hour and 10 minutes down
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