Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Cafe > General

General Grab a short black and come join in the non-cycling discussion. Favourite books, movies, holiday destinations, other sports - chat about it all in the cafe.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2021  
Old 03-09-12, 03:58
Rip:30's Avatar
Rip:30 Rip:30 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 993
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
Okay... So the debt has been increased by 1/3 under Obama's stewardship.

But, he IS a Democrat so I guess he gets a pass? You can't really be making that point seriously, are you?

You do realize we have not actually had a budget in nearly three years... Just continuing resolutions. Who's fault is this?

Obama has a veto pen and can use it anytime he likes.

5 Trillion in new debt in a little over 3 years. What do you make of this? Is this ok with you? If not Obama who is driving this?
I don't think he gets a pass, it's just a decsion that was made and has to be dealt with. We'll never know what would have happened without all the stimulus/bail out stuff. Personally I would like to have seen the banks that were "too big to fail" fail. F them. That's one my least favorite Obama policies.

On the other hand one of my least favorite Republican fiscally irresponsible policies: invade random countries.

3-4 Trillion $ and .25 million lives by some estimates

And just this week all the R candidates (and B) talking tuff about invading Iran!??!?!?!?!?! Good grief. When will we learn.
__________________
Not done with my drink till I've crunched all the ice crew
Reply With Quote
  #2022  
Old 03-09-12, 05:39
Alpe d'Huez's Avatar
Alpe d'Huez Alpe d'Huez is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 7,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip:30 View Post
And just this week all the R candidates (and B) talking tuff about invading Iran!??!?!?!?!?! Good grief. When will we learn.
When probably 70% of all Republicans favor a full war, and maybe some 30% of Democrats favor something similar, it's frightening. Especially when probably only about 15% of the total lunatic fringe of the population supports it. All while constantly stating we're flat broke and shouldn't spend any money on anything. Even buying one pencil for a poor rural school is a waste to these people.

I think what's most frustrating is that with just a little UN, EU and USA pressure Belgium based SWIFT could basically flip a switch, and Iran would be removed from global banking, which would very quickly grind their entire economy to a halt. It would be highly effective. And yet, our leaders and loud mouthed pundits are so stupid they think it's better to talk first about bombing and invading them. Brilliant.
Reply With Quote
  #2023  
Old 03-09-12, 12:34
aphronesis aphronesis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,503
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
When probably 70% of all Republicans favor a full war, and maybe some 30% of Democrats favor something similar, it's frightening. Especially when probably only about 15% of the total lunatic fringe of the population supports it. All while constantly stating we're flat broke and shouldn't spend any money on anything. Even buying one pencil for a poor rural school is a waste to these people.

I think what's most frustrating is that with just a little UN, EU and USA pressure Belgium based SWIFT could basically flip a switch, and Iran would be removed from global banking, which would very quickly grind their entire economy to a halt. It would be highly effective. And yet, our leaders and loud mouthed pundits are so stupid they think it's better to talk first about bombing and invading them. Brilliant.
Aside from the easy tribalism that those kinds of responses put in play, it seems that many aren't able to look objectively at how Iran will conceive of its own interests--and the extent to which sanctions might be effective.
Reply With Quote
  #2024  
Old 03-09-12, 13:03
Nielsa Nielsa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 424
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
I think what's most frustrating is that with just a little UN, EU and USA pressure Belgium based SWIFT could basically flip a switch, and Iran would be removed from global banking, which would very quickly grind their entire economy to a halt. It would be highly effective. And yet, our leaders and loud mouthed pundits are so stupid they think it's better to talk first about bombing and invading them. Brilliant.
I hate to bang the old oil drum, but... halting Iran's economy necessarily involves strangling their oil exports.

1. Iran is a huge oil exporter to China, India, Japan, South Korea and others. The West simply cannot go and unilaterally shut off one of Asia's main oil pipes.

2. Your proposal would most probably result in another 1973 in terms of near-instant, massive, oil price hike. Have fun with that in an election year.
Reply With Quote
  #2025  
Old 03-09-12, 13:10
aphronesis aphronesis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,503
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielsa View Post
I hate to bang the old oil drum, but... halting Iran's economy necessarily involves strangling their oil exports.

1. Iran is a huge oil exporter to China, India, Japan, South Korea and others. The West simply cannot go and unilaterally shut off one of Asia's main oil pipes.

2. Your proposal would most probably result in another 1973 in terms of near-instant, massive, oil price hike. Have fun with that in an election year.
This is not entirely true. US/EU sanctions as proposed now won't cut off the flow of oil to Asia. Directly, maybe, to a certain degree. At the same time, it is the case that Iran will have problems getting rid of all surplus in Asia at the prices they might like. Market speculation (based on a number of projected factors) will ultimately have as much to do with any increase in oil prices during the coming months.

The alternative of going to war with Iran would have the same effect by that logic and wouldn't make the election year any more pleasant.
Reply With Quote
  #2026  
Old 03-09-12, 14:42
Nielsa Nielsa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 424
Default

Well my post was strictly in reply to the proposal to shut down Iran's economy via the banking system, I was not talking about current US/EU sanctions.
And I was not making a case for war. There are of course other alternatives than just economic shutdown and long bombing campaigns.

Last edited by Nielsa; 03-09-12 at 14:47.
Reply With Quote
  #2027  
Old 03-09-12, 15:23
The Hitch's Avatar
The Hitch The Hitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London.
Posts: 21,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
Right, he did it all himself.
Presumably all the improvements that he is credited with in those lengthy posts and posters and graphs, are down to him though no?

Personally I don't think he should take all the credit for the good nor all the criticism for the bad, but considering some of the things he gets credit for on here, he absolutely has to take all the criticism for anything that goes wrong.
__________________
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
Reply With Quote
  #2028  
Old 03-09-12, 16:19
VeloCity's Avatar
VeloCity VeloCity is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 3,025
Default

btw something to keep in mind when voting for Congressional reps in 2012:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...climate-change

"If Republicans claim the Senate majority in the 2012 elections, Inhofe will be the chairman of the Senate committee on the environment." Fantastic.
Reply With Quote
  #2029  
Old 03-09-12, 16:24
Scott SoCal
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloCity View Post
btw something to keep in mind when voting for Congressional reps in 2012:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...climate-change

"If Republicans claim the Senate majority in the 2012 elections, Inhofe will be the chairman of the Senate committee on the environment." Fantastic.
So you will be voting republican then?
Reply With Quote
  #2030  
Old 03-09-12, 18:16
VeloCity's Avatar
VeloCity VeloCity is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 3,025
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
So you will be voting republican then?
Nah. I tend to lean toward the party led by people who recognize that it's the 21st century over the party who's leaders are stuck in the 16th. I also tend to prefer the party who's senior members aren't completely bat**** crazy.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.