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  #591  
Old 11-08-12, 09:20
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
I am responding to this.





according to what stupid logic? I never justified or attacked vinos actions 1 way or another. I merely pointed out flaws in your - "well Gilbert can just win any monument by rigging the entire race from the start with millions" argument, when Vino did NOT pay every rider, he paid one rider a fraction of 1 million.

And had you actually read my rather short post, rather than make up a long list of things i never said, you would have seen 1 of the things i did cover was exactly the type of example you cite here.

In your msr 2011 example, phil would have needed to pay 2 riders, including the strongest 1 day rider of our generation. But Vino did not pay Cancellara and Goss, he paid frickin Alexander Kolobnev.



Cancellara came up because you are so predictable i knew you would say that Gilbert could have won MSR by paying Cancellara, so i blocked you by responding to your example before you even made it.



I never actually adressed any of this in my post, but if typing it up and posting it helps get it off your chest, ill try not to distrupt the process.




Once again, my post was a response to the following.



Im not saying 2nd place is as good as winning, what i am saying is that you cant compare rigging an entire race so that the winner is guaranteed from the start (your Gilbert can win anything with x million dollars example) to actually working and being in with a fantastic shot once the race is in its closing stages ( Vino 2010).

However, i did enjoy your pozzato example and the way you presented it, nonetheless.



Phil has everything to do with it as i was responding to your comment about how phil should be named winner of every monument next year as he has a lot of money






What ad hominem did i use?



He might still be in debt to JI



How do you know Phil didnt buy his worlds win? You sound like those clinic novices who cry that the rider from their country cant be doping and they know this 100% because people from their country are so great.

I mean this is the same Philipe Gilbert who is still Vinos best friend yes?

In fact looking at the retarded behaviour of the German team who worked their asses off for him all day, i think there is quite a strong possibility.
thanks for this. it keeps being hilarious to see el pisti getting kicked in the dirt by digging his own grave all the time
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  #592  
Old 11-08-12, 09:31
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Magnus Magnus is offline
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Originally Posted by Afrank View Post
It was not his cooperation that he sold, he sold to vino a final with no competition from him.
I don't think we'll ever know for sure.
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Originally Posted by Afrank View Post
The difference is one is illegal and considered cheating and the other is part of racing.
Anybody knows where it says so?
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Originally Posted by Afrank View Post
yes, we should not allow a rider to buy a race from another, this is where we draw the line. it gives the impression that as long as you have money and you can be in the final of a race you can just pay off the other guys and roll in for a zero competition win. I don't know about you but I want to see a real race, where riders are all going for the win, not selling it to the highest bidder.
So it would have been OK if Vino had payed Kolobnev to cooperate with him until 200 m before the finish line?
When I saw L-B-L in 2010 I saw a real race.
Personally I think that buying a race is somewhat amoral and wrong in a sense but on the other hand I feel that there's not really any arguments arguing that it's wrong other than that it's wrong. Morally I think Andy paying off some random rider to help him in the Galibier stage is worse because it influences other than the two of them. On the other hand complex motives for cooperating is part of cycling tactics and (imo) a big part of what makes cycling interesting and differentiates it from other sports.
I don't think that paying someone in cool cash is so different from paying in future help/alliances or a contract at the end of the year (Kiriyenka helping team Sky at the olympics anyone? where's the thread about that!) but it obviously makes the deal more concrete/visible.
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  #593  
Old 11-08-12, 13:11
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
the reason they booded vino at ans is ebcause belgian fans are the worst most nationalistic idiots in the world. it was sickening and kolobnev didn't act to get dropped. there is no sign of that at all. again expalin to me why kolobnev would sell winning a monument for 150.000 euros, if he could win it?
It's in the e-mails man. Do you still believe in Santa Claus as well?

Vino bought Paris-Nice for much less. Kolobnev is not a big earner and who knows what the guy wastes his cash on. He might be in debt for all we know. He clearly needs a good punishment for selling out so cheaply.

And the reason Vino got booed is because his doping past. Has little to do with being Belgian or being nationalistic idiots.

Are you too blind to see you're doing exactly the same with Oscar Sevilla in Colombia? Man, you're such a hypocrite.
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horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week

Last edited by El Pistolero; 11-08-12 at 13:17.
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  #594  
Old 11-08-12, 13:27
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
It's in the e-mails man. Do you still believe in Santa Claus as well?

Vino bought Paris-Nice for much less. Kolobnev is not a big earner and who knows what the guy wastes his cash on. He might be in debt for all we know. He clearly needs a good punishment for selling out so cheaply.

And the reason Vino got booed is because his doping past. Has little to do with being Belgian or being nationalistic idiots.

Are you too blind to see you're doing exactly the same with Oscar Sevilla in Colombia? Man, you're such a hypocrite.
always makes me day when you call me a hypocrite

and pls point it out in the emails to me, because I can't read it.

and I'm sure leukemans or museeuw would get booed too oh wait, museeuw is still often seen in national tv and seen as a hero
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  #595  
Old 11-08-12, 13:29
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Museeuw has only admitted to doping his entire career this year and unlike Boogerd at least came out. Leukemans didn't test positive for someone else's blood during the Tour and won a Monument after his come-back now did he? I'm sure there would've been quite some boos had he won LBL in 2009.

Ryo, I'm not here to read for you. If you can't read then don't go on a forum.
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week

Last edited by El Pistolero; 11-08-12 at 13:33.
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  #596  
Old 11-08-12, 13:31
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
Museeuw has only admitted to doping this year and unlike Boogerd at least came out. Leukemans didn't test positive for someone else's blood during the Tour and won a Monument after his come-back now did he?

Ryo, I'm not here to read for you. If you can't read then don't go on a forum.
that's what makes the belgians so hypocrite. everybody knew msueeuw used but he was still treated as a hero. someone liek dave bruylandts who was caught at leats 4 times!! would get only 1 year bann from belgian authorities, same with keisse, leukemans etc. pathetic country in every way.

also why are you bringing boogerd up? do you think that hurts me because he's dutch like me? I'm not a narrowminded nationalist as you pisti
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  #597  
Old 11-08-12, 13:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
that's what makes the belgians so hypocrite. everybody knew msueeuw used but he was still treated as a hero. someone liek dave bruylandts who was caught at leats 4 times!! would get only 1 year bann from belgian authorities, same with keisse, leukemans etc. pathetic country in every way.

also why are you bringing boogerd up? do you think that hurts me because he's dutch like me? I'm not a narrowminded nationalist as you pisti
Yes you are, you just replace Dutch with Colombians. You're probably the biggest nationalist on this forum. I bring up Boogerd to show you it's not just Belgians that threat cyclists as hero's even though they're not.

Really now Iljo Keisse? I doubt you know one thing about his case lol. Don't even bother. Can't compare that case to Vino at all.

Ps: the crowd booing Vino were mostly Walloons. Museeuw isn't a hero in the French speaking part of Belgium. Not that I expect you to know anything about Belgium.

What national TV are you talking about? Tell me one Belgian TV channel that's aimed at all of Belgium?
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week

Last edited by El Pistolero; 11-08-12 at 13:40.
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  #598  
Old 11-08-12, 13:38
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c'mon pistolero be a man and admit it. you managed to mention phil, merckx and god vdb in all the posts. the next one i was expecting was fries and mayonaise.
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  #599  
Old 11-08-12, 13:43
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Originally Posted by jens_attacks View Post
c'mon pistolero be a man and admit it. you managed to mention phil, merckx and god vdb in all the posts. the next one i was expecting was fries and mayonaise.
Actually I never mentioned Phil until people started attacking me with it. Do get your facts straight.

What do I need to admit? That Vino is such a great cyclist that he feels the need to pay Kolobnev money to win a race? Joking aside, you and I know Vino isn't the great cyclist he's portrayed as on this forum. Why lie to your self? If he was anything like this forum thinks he is he would've just beaten Kolobnev without offering him money. He's not the Chuck Noriss of cycling and never will be.

If Vino is anything, he's just an Eastern-European stereotype.
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week

Last edited by El Pistolero; 11-08-12 at 13:47.
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  #600  
Old 11-08-12, 13:49
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just coming from lausanne:





and wrong, vino is a god of cycling.
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