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  #311  
Old 04-09-12, 15:12
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MarkvW MarkvW is offline
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What would Floyd have to do for you to forgive him for the lie that you keep pointing out as your source of disdain for him? Just for a minute give him the benefit of the doubt and pretend you believe that he didn't knowingly take testosterone during the tour. Calling him a liar is fine but at some point is there any redemption possible or is he past some threshold in your head?
I'll give Floyd the benefit of the doubt about the testosterone when I meet Tyler's Twin.

Redemption involves acknowledging your guilt and accepting responsibility. I'm totally for it. If he's charged, I think Floyd is going to plead guilty and accept responsibility for the Fraud Fairness Fund. I definitely support that.

On the other hand, I want to see Floyd held criminally accountable for his actions. I don't care if he's found guilty or not guilty. I want him held accountable for cheating his fans. I happen to think he'll plead if he is charged. He could go to trial, but that would mean him standing up in front of a jury and saying "I didn't cheat anybody." I don't think he'll do that, because I think Floyd is sick and tired of all the lying.
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  #312  
Old 04-09-12, 15:22
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I'll give Floyd the benefit of the doubt about the testosterone when I meet Tyler's Twin.

Redemption involves acknowledging your guilt and accepting responsibility. I'm totally for it. If he's charged, I think Floyd is going to plead guilty and accept responsibility for the Fraud Fairness Fund. I definitely support that.

On the other hand, I want to see Floyd held criminally accountable for his actions. I don't care if he's found guilty or not guilty. I want him held accountable for cheating his fans. I happen to think he'll plead if he is charged. He could go to trial, but that would mean him standing up in front of a jury and saying "I didn't cheat anybody." I don't think he'll do that, because I think Floyd is sick and tired of all the lying.
Ok that's what I was wondering. Weather you feel that the two and a half year suspension and the hundred thousand dollar fine he paid were enough punishment or if he should be punished more for lying.

Along those lines, have you forgiven Armstrong for all the lies or would you like to apply the same standard to him?
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  #313  
Old 04-09-12, 15:27
aphronesis aphronesis is offline
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Ok that's what I was wondering. Weather you feel that the two and a half year suspension and the hundred thousand dollar fine he paid were enough punishment or if he should be punished more for lying.

Along those lines, have you forgiven Armstrong for all the lies or would you like to apply the same standard to him?
This thread is not about Armstrong Dig. It can be about the vapidity of an American public, the charade of the UCI, the meanderings of the FBI, the prophet in the wilderness, and any number of other things, but it is not about Armstrong.

When charges are pressed, and, decades later, when some texts and emails are released linking Sand Dog Fab to movers behind this latest development, you can make it about little Gunderson. Otherwise, please refrain.

Last edited by aphronesis; 04-09-12 at 15:29.
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  #314  
Old 04-09-12, 15:42
KingsMountain KingsMountain is offline
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Ok that's what I was wondering. Weather you feel that the two and a half year suspension and the hundred thousand dollar fine he paid were enough punishment or if he should be punished more for lying.

Along those lines, have you forgiven Armstrong for all the lies or would you like to apply the same standard to him?
Just a side point, but I don't believe that Floyd ever paid the $100,000, despite a thread at DPF which had that title. The arrangement reached with the USADA was the Floyd could race immediately, and he was to pay the fine over an unspecified time period.

It is my opinion that Floyd's filing asking that the $100K fine be set aside demonstrated very clearly that the CAS arbitration scheme is fraught with the possibility of bias (the "impartial" arbiter in one case can be appointed by one of the sides in a different case, and vice versa), and the USADA did not want to expose that weakness in the system.
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  #315  
Old 04-09-12, 16:04
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Ok let's resolve this.

Would all of the real lawyers on here please identify yourselves please?
Hey coach March Madness is over, and now you have more time to spend on the cycling forums.
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  #316  
Old 04-09-12, 16:08
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Hey coach March Madness is over, and now you have more time to spend on the cycling forums.
Yea unlike some
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  #317  
Old 04-09-12, 16:37
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Originally Posted by Digger View Post
Ok that's what I was wondering. Weather you feel that the two and a half year suspension and the hundred thousand dollar fine he paid were enough punishment or if he should be punished more for lying.

Along those lines, have you forgiven Armstrong for all the lies or would you like to apply the same standard to him?
Probation, restitution, and a small fine would suit me for Floyd. Floyd's fully paid for his doping. Now's the time to pay for cheating his fans.

Funny you bring Lance up. Floyd is another one of the lying Posties who covered for Lance all those years, allowing him to beat the rap. (I'm just pulling your chain ).

Lance beat the rap. That's no reason Floyd should, though. I would have liked to have seen Armstrong exposed and convicted in a criminal trial.
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  #318  
Old 04-09-12, 16:42
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Just a side point, but I don't believe that Floyd ever paid the $100,000, despite a thread at DPF which had that title. The arrangement reached with the USADA was the Floyd could race immediately, and he was to pay the fine over an unspecified time period.

It is my opinion that Floyd's filing asking that the $100K fine be set aside demonstrated very clearly that the CAS arbitration scheme is fraught with the possibility of bias (the "impartial" arbiter in one case can be appointed by one of the sides in a different case, and vice versa), and the USADA did not want to expose that weakness in the system.
IIRC Floyd got sanctioned for making the other side produce their experts, making them wait around, and then not using them. That's part of the judgment, as I recall.
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  #319  
Old 04-09-12, 16:44
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The interesting thing about this, if FLandis can get a thorough defense, is that he has maintained that he did not use testosterone and proving that he did would be done in a venue competely different than the kangaroo courts that make up the anti-doping process. He can use the sloppiness of the lab as an excuse for why he fought so hard by saying he fought it because he was not guilty of the specific doping offense he was charged with.
Floyd still denies using testosterone doesn't he? I beleive him. Sure he admitted using other drugs, with Lance and stuff - but he still denies the testosterone right?

The FFF Fraud is based on the use of testosterone while at Phonak. And the Feds will first have to prove that. Prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I do not think the evidence will hold up. I think Floyd should call on Lance to testify for the defense. First, show how the French Lab has performed in the past yikes. Call Lemond too. Greg had issues with the French testing also. Floyd could also use Lance as a character witness. Deny ever seeing Floyd using testosterone in 2006.

On the other hand, Floyd could admit to using the testosterone in 2006 TdF. Admit he was lying. Establish his fraud. Then go after the Champions Club guys - "Hey, you guys should have known I was doping". And in that way knock his fraud case down.
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  #320  
Old 04-09-12, 16:58
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Probation, restitution, and a small fine would suit me for Floyd. Floyd's fully paid for his doping. Now's the time to pay for cheating his fans.

Funny you bring Lance up. Floyd is another one of the lying Posties who covered for Lance all those years, allowing him to beat the rap. (I'm just pulling your chain ).

Lance beat the rap. That's no reason Floyd should, though. I would have liked to have seen Armstrong exposed and convicted in a criminal trial.
Trying to read the entire topic is about impossible but has anyone mentioned why would the Fed's be tracking down Whisky Tango when they could get TugBoat and the Mullet?

What would be the difference between FFF and the THFF?
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