TDF 2012: Titans Collide. Dennis Menchov Versus Cadel Evans...possible rivalry. - Page 11 - CyclingNews Forum

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  #101  
Old 04-12-12, 13:49
airstream airstream is offline
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Andy plays white. If he will be like in 2010 no one stands a chance.
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  #102  
Old 04-12-12, 13:58
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cineteq cineteq is offline
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Andy plays white. If he will be like in 2010 no one stands a chance.
1. Sounds like wishful thinking
2. Are you aware of this?
Time is running out on Andy Schleck's preparations for the Ardennes Classics, and the former winner of Liège-Bastogne-Liège (2009) is still struggling to overcome a lack of racing kilometers following a troubled start of his season.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andy...brabantse-pijl
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  #103  
Old 04-12-12, 14:08
airstream airstream is offline
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1. Sounds like wishful thinking
2. Are you aware of this?
Time is running out on Andy Schleck's preparations for the Ardennes Classics, and the former winner of Liège-Bastogne-Liège (2009) is still struggling to overcome a lack of racing kilometers following a troubled start of his season.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andy...brabantse-pijl
Yes, I've read this. It's ok. Bruyneel and Andy specified in winter yet that there is a lesser focus on Ardennes this season. Hopefully he will warm up a bit on LBL at least. So to speak, it's high time to start warming up.

Last edited by airstream; 04-12-12 at 14:10.
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  #104  
Old 04-12-12, 15:11
karlboss karlboss is offline
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Come on, now. If we're going to start cherry picking stages, and throwing out all context, then we have Menchov losing over a minute in the Vuelta TT to Wiggins + Froome; Evans losing 1:10 to Wiggins in the Dauphine TT, 15 seconds to Wiggins on the the climb Rodriguez won (and Samu losing nearly 2 minutes 30!); Anton, Rodriguez, Nibali, VdB etc all losing time to Wiggins on other climbs in the Vuelta.

If you really want to go back to 2009 to bring up one stage, you should also bring up Wiggins putting 18 minutes into Menchov and 26 into Evans on that very same stage; plus 6 minutes into Menchov up Verbier, plus 1:30 into Evans, Kloden, Armstrong. And on and on.

With context, Rodriguez was already 4 minutes down on Wiggins at that point, and not a danger.

With context, Menchov also lost 48 seconds to Cobo on the Angliru, and only gained 30 seconds on a near-dead, in-agony Wiggins, whilst Menchov himself was - we are constantly reminded - only just reaching his peak in the third week.

With context, 2009 was Wiggins first ever attempt at a GC, and he did a heck of a lot better than Evans and Menchov.

In other words, what a pointless exercise.
I tried to pick examples of Wiggins when the pressure was on in 2011 uphill. If you have better examples of Wiggins climbing under pressure in 2011 feel free to share them. i just don't consider finishing with 10 other people indicative of a tough climb.
2009 Verbier is actually a great example of what he may be capable of, close to 8km at 8% and dropped 1:06 to Contador, but only 23 seconds to Andy Schleck. In fact I don't think he's ever climbed better than he did in that whole tour though his DS did state that the 2009 tour was soft pedalled on the hills. It may happen again in 2012, but i doubt it.
My reference to 2009 was only to point out that just because a stage doesn't finish uphill there isn't time to be made. And just how much time climbers can take on these over TT specialists.
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  #105  
Old 04-12-12, 16:01
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gustienordic gustienordic is offline
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It's also apparent that Wiggins is a better rider than he was a few years ago. His form pre-Tour last year and this year to me, is an improvement. Does not automatically mean that it will translate to a Tour success but he has definitely improved. He has to be included in the top 5. As for R/Shack, I don't believe the hype. They have to attack, does not mean they will be successful.
I think Wiggins might win, but I think that is solely because of his TT ability. He needs to pull out a great TT and hope to hang on in the MTNs, but Schleck knows he needs to attack, and so will, bringing with him Samu & Evans. I don't see Wiggins or Menchov capable of the same climbing prowess. Yet look at Contador in the 2008 Giro; he was hardly the dominant climber we saw in other years but since the stronger climbers kept cracking at unfortunate times, he was able to win. Could see a situation like this happen.
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  #106  
Old 04-13-12, 06:38
movingtarget movingtarget is offline
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I think Wiggins might win, but I think that is solely because of his TT ability. He needs to pull out a great TT and hope to hang on in the MTNs, but Schleck knows he needs to attack, and so will, bringing with him Samu & Evans. I don't see Wiggins or Menchov capable of the same climbing prowess. Yet look at Contador in the 2008 Giro; he was hardly the dominant climber we saw in other years but since the stronger climbers kept cracking at unfortunate times, he was able to win. Could see a situation like this happen.
If Schleck is in his 2010 form I doubt that Evans or Sanchez or anyone else would be able to go with him on the MTFs. But that's a big if. Once again his preparation has been less than ideal this year. Has he finished a race yet ? As you say he also has the TTs to contend with and improvement there is an even bigger if. To me it's a simple calculation. Will Schleck gain enough time over the his best rivals in the mountains who are much better TT riders. I don't think he will on the riders at the top of the GC. Schleck's best chance is if some of these riders have some bad luck with mechanicals or whatever. Let's face it there are question marks about all of the contenders which makes for an open race like last year.
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  #107  
Old 04-13-12, 06:47
karlboss karlboss is offline
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Originally Posted by gustienordic View Post
I think Wiggins might win, but I think that is solely because of his TT ability. He needs to pull out a great TT and hope to hang on in the MTNs, but Schleck knows he needs to attack, and so will, bringing with him Samu & Evans. I don't see Wiggins or Menchov capable of the same climbing prowess. Yet look at Contador in the 2008 Giro; he was hardly the dominant climber we saw in other years but since the stronger climbers kept cracking at unfortunate times, he was able to win. Could see a situation like this happen.
I don't see Evans able to climb with Schleck if he drops the hammer. Come to think of it, now Contador is out I don't think anyone can.

Edit: pity for Andy he needs to drop them and take more than 4 minutes.

Last edited by karlboss; 04-13-12 at 06:55.
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  #108  
Old 04-13-12, 07:00
airstream airstream is offline
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I guess it'll be black or white. Either Andy will be very good both on the climbs and in TT or won't be a contender for top-3. To win back 4minutes from Wiggins is more than a feasible task.
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  #109  
Old 04-13-12, 07:11
karlboss karlboss is offline
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
I guess it'll be black or white. Either Andy will be very good both on the climbs and in TT or won't be a contender for top-3. To win back 4minutes from Wiggins is more than a feasible task.
Andy will be a top 3 contender(not will be top 3) if he is in 2011 form, but it'll take 2010 form and aggressive riding to be a contender for victory.
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  #110  
Old 04-13-12, 07:21
JRanton JRanton is offline
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I guess it'll be black or white. Either Andy will be very good both on the climbs and in TT or won't be a contender for top-3. To win back 4minutes from Wiggins is more than a feasible task.
True. It's not that feasible to win back 4 minutes from Evans though (or from Froome for that matter )
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