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  #191  
Old 08-30-12, 07:19
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Drug Use Said to Concern LeMond : Attorney Claims Dutch Team Wanted Cyclist to Try Testosterone

July 25, 1989 | RANDY HARVEY | Times Staff Writer

Already beset by injuries and illness, Greg LeMond was further distressed last year because he feared his team, PDM of the Netherlands, would try to improve his lagging performances by tricking him into using a banned drug, the American cyclist's attorney said Monday.

Although LeMond's break with PDM, the sport's dominant team, was primarily the result of a financial dispute, Ron Stanko of Reading, Pa., said the cyclist was believed to be out of the contract before this year because of his philosophical differences with the team's officials regarding banned substances.

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-..._1_greg-lemond
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  #192  
Old 08-30-12, 08:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KayLow View Post
Here is a link to a scientific paper on hCG and sport from 1991 that indicates that testing for hCG was in place by then in the UK.

http://bjsportmed.com/content/25/2/73.full.pdf

From a review of the literature from as late as 1997, it is apparent that there were a lot of limitations to hCG testing around the time of Lance's cancer. The first hCG doping violation that I could find occurred in 1999. I still would like to see some more definitive evidence that testing for hCG was common and reliable in the mid-1990s before I pass judgment on this argument.
The urinary test for steroid's that they were using at that time was to test the testosterone : epitestosterone ratio, this is the test that Floyd failed with a ratio of 11: 1 (4 : 1 is the limit now, it was a more lenient 6 : 1 at the time Lance developed cancer).

That ratio should have been distorted months before his cancer was diagnosed regardless of how effective the hCG testing was at that point.
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  #193  
Old 08-30-12, 10:54
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Originally Posted by Race Radio View Post
m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/26/lance-armstrong-doping-whistleblowers?cat=sport&type=article

The witness list will grow, but be filled with people who kept quite for years in order to avoid the harassment Mike, Emma, Betsy, David, and so many others were targets of
Evidence begets evidence.
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  #194  
Old 08-30-12, 11:38
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Originally Posted by Briant_Gumble View Post
The urinary test for steroid's that they were using at that time was to test the testosterone : epitestosterone ratio, this is the test that Floyd failed with a ratio of 11: 1 (4 : 1 is the limit now, it was a more lenient 6 : 1 at the time Lance developed cancer).

That ratio should have been distorted months before his cancer was diagnosed regardless of how effective the hCG testing was at that point.
From memory (don't shoot me if I'm wrong) the IOC T/E ratio limit is still 6:1, would be interesting to see which athletes at the Olympics were above 4:1.
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  #195  
Old 08-30-12, 12:32
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Originally Posted by Race Radio View Post
It will be public. The best part is when you Google his name the 4th result that comes up is TFF at his best........Comedy gold
Good ole Cycling Forums...a place where you could really express yourself as colorfully as you wanted. EDIT: after reading that thread, I see that they now have a word filter. When I originally started that thread, there was no filter, and my language was there in all of its profane glory. Too bad that.

I'm just happy that my ode to him comes up so high on the list as it sounds like there will be a lot of Armstrong fanboys googling his name soon. (as 99% of Armstrong's fans have no idea that anyone but Lance ever rode a race) He always was and will be a complete ****weasel.
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Last edited by ChewbaccaD; 08-30-12 at 12:54.
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  #196  
Old 08-30-12, 12:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briant_Gumble View Post
The urinary test for steroid's that they were using at that time was to test the testosterone : epitestosterone ratio, this is the test that Floyd failed with a ratio of 11: 1 (4 : 1 is the limit now, it was a more lenient 6 : 1 at the time Lance developed cancer).

That ratio should have been distorted months before his cancer was diagnosed regardless of how effective the hCG testing was at that point.
Not sure this is true. The standard protocols for high hCG result include a test for testicular cancer. The high T/E ratio protocols do not, and I have never heard that abnormally high T/E ratios are a common marker for testicular cancer. I am not saying this is wrong, but I have never heard this.
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  #197  
Old 08-30-12, 13:16
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Originally Posted by LauraLyn View Post
Evidence begets evidence.
The spiral of silence is unwinding.
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  #198  
Old 08-30-12, 15:29
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Originally Posted by KayLow View Post
Not sure this is true. The standard protocols for high hCG result include a test for testicular cancer. The high T/E ratio protocols do not, and I have never heard that abnormally high T/E ratios are a common marker for testicular cancer. I am not saying this is wrong, but I have never heard this.
It's more of a vague marker than a test but it stands to reason and logic that his ratio should have been distorted if his untainted urine was meeting the tests.

From a quick google search this article touches on it:

Quote:
An athlete is often considered to have failed a drug test if the urinary T/E (Testosterone:Epitestosterone) ratio is greater than 6. So the UCI would have been testing for it, and Armstrong’s cancer would have resulted in an enormously elevated T/E ratio.

But Armstrong never produced a positive sample. Compare that with Jake Gibb whose life, it could be argued, was saved by USADA’s testing, when it detected those hugely elevated levels in an anti-doping test, and advised him to see a doctor.
http://cavalierfc.tumblr.com/

If you understand my point, whilst a cancer patient is not going to get their cancer diagnosed from a T: E, if someone who unknowingly had the cancer submitted their urine for testing multiple times whilst they still had the cancer then it should have shown up that things were distorted.
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  #199  
Old 08-30-12, 15:36
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Originally Posted by the big ring View Post
The spiral of silence is unwinding.
Without a safe place, the truth cannot come out.

For so many people it is now safe to say what they know and how they really feel about Lance Armstrong. The more that do this, the more others will also feel comfortable to say what they know and how they feel.

UCI and USA Cycling are still too threatening for most riders and those involved in cycling.
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  #200  
Old 08-30-12, 15:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stueyy View Post
From memory (don't shoot me if I'm wrong) the IOC T/E ratio limit is still 6:1, would be interesting to see which athletes at the Olympics were above 4:1.
Nah, I'm pretty sure it was 4:1 at the last Olympics although a 1:1 ratio occurs naturally so there's still scope for abuse.

Quote:
It is recommended that a urine Sample in which any one of the following criteria is met during the
Screening Procedure, be routinely submitted to the IRMS analysis:
i) T/E value equal or greater than 4
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/d...ids_aug_04.pdf

Last edited by Briant_Gumble; 08-30-12 at 15:39.
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