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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2013 Tour
Alberto Contador 61 63.54%
Cristopher Froome 25 26.04%
Andy Schleck 6 6.25%
Vincenzo Nibali 2 2.08%
Cadel Evans / Teehay Van Garderen 2 2.08%
Ryder Hesjedal 1 1.04%
Alejandro Valverde / Juan Jose Cobo 1 1.04%
Other (specify) 1 1.04%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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  #491  
Old 11-24-12, 23:04
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Arnout Arnout is offline
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I like colorful language, that's true.

But basically his reasoning is that certain people view Contador as the best no matter what. When someone else is close, Contador is in bad form. When Contador beats everyone by a big margin, everyone was in good form. I think that's twaddle.
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  #492  
Old 11-24-12, 23:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnout View Post
I agree with this, and I am being serious.
You agree that saying contador is naturally superior.to.other riders is basically nazism? I always like it when people make.clear where they stand on these issues
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If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
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  #493  
Old 11-24-12, 23:17
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No, that's not what he said.
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  #494  
Old 11-24-12, 23:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnout View Post
I like colorful language, that's true.

But basically his reasoning is that certain people view Contador as the best no matter what. When someone else is close, Contador is in bad form. When Contador beats everyone by a big margin, everyone was in good form. I think that's twaddle.
Well that's because that's the way the world works. Some.riders are better than others. What you posted.is actually a very accurate description.of.how the food chain looks.in cycling. Same way that if cav loses he probably isn't on form. Or.Gilbert. Do you think.Gilbert was at 100% in the ardennes this year and astana were simply better ?

Everything apart from the cheap.last little bit about how everyone is always on form.v contador. Contador fans do.of course aknowledge that his opponents aren't always at 100 eg froome 12 Evans 10. But don't let facts get in the way of your little rant.
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The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
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  #495  
Old 11-24-12, 23:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
I don't know whether that makes you good or bad at English.
I.think the answer is "bad"

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Originally Posted by Arnout View Post
No, that's not what he said.
Quote:
IMO the thing you could present like an allegoric comparison to darwinism while saying about Contador and others is closer to nazism — proclamation of upper and lower races due to subjective reality by default.*

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The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.

Last edited by The Hitch; 11-25-12 at 11:24.
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  #496  
Old 11-24-12, 23:39
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He said saying that Contador is always better than other riders no matter what is closer to Nazism: i.e. not a matter-of-fact Darwinist survival of the fittest, but rather starting from the premise that one is better than the other. I think that's exactly what's going on. I don't think that is a big problem though, as it might actually be true (and I'm definitely not talking about the evil sides of that ideology, just about the basic premise)..

And I know supporters of Contador also acknowledge weaknesses and strengths of other riders. However, I also feel that the lack of racedays of Contador in this Vuelta was exaggerated, compared to previous years where other people were comparatively better than Contador because they were fresh. Or about the case of Contador gifting away stages to the likes of Anton because he couldn't be bothered rather than that someone else was faster than him on a certain day (I don't want to go into that in detail, we've had this discussion, just pointing it out). I feel different standards are and were used.

I don't buy in the "he is always better than someone else". It depends on time and day and I don't think Contador, or anyone, is as unbeatable every single day of the year. That is why I agree with airstream who's simply saying that things can change and have changed and will continue to do so and that the reasoning that Contador is the best rider can be challenged. That's all.
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  #497  
Old 11-25-12, 07:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Well that's because that's the way the world works. Some.riders are better than others. What you posted.is actually a very accurate description.of.how the food chain looks.in cycling. Same way that if cav loses he probably isn't on form. Or.Gilbert. Do you think.Gilbert was at 100% in the ardennes this year and astana were simply better ?

Everything apart from the cheap.last little bit about how everyone is always on form.v contador. Contador fans do.of course aknowledge that his opponents aren't always at 100 eg froome 12 Evans 10. But don't let facts get in the way of your little rant.
You don't understand. No rider can set the level other rider is not able to outdo. The world is changeable and it doesn't work this way. There are no races which become a benchmark and remembering which we would say 'ah, if a rider had been in THAT form, actual winners would never have won' and there are too many decisive factors and such comparison are useless.

Saying about Gilbert, all of us understood such a form like in 2011 can be once in a lifetime. Because such things don't happen twice in a row. It's like.. if Barcelona would grow one more super duper starry team out of players of the next generation. It's just impossible due to natural course of life and contention. It works for Phil too. More likely he can be in a similar shape surely, but it could lesser results because there are too many uncontrollable circumstances.

Feeling that you are better at English than the man who lives in a country where no one speaks and learns it by himself. Great reason to proud of! Then you are right. We are saying in absolutely different languages in terms of mutual understanding.

Last edited by airstream; 11-25-12 at 11:07.
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  #498  
Old 11-25-12, 07:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Well that's because that's the way the world works. Some.riders are better than others. What you posted.is actually a very accurate description.of.how the food chain looks.in cycling. Same way that if cav loses he probably isn't on form. Or.Gilbert. Do you think.Gilbert was at 100% in the ardennes this year and astana were simply better ?

Everything apart from the cheap.last little bit about how everyone is always on form.v contador. Contador fans do.of course aknowledge that his opponents aren't always at 100 eg froome 12 Evans 10. But don't let facts get in the way of your little rant.
Just want to jump into this discussion for a second and say Yes, yes ofc he was, and yes they were
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  #499  
Old 11-25-12, 08:15
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnout View Post
He said saying that Contador is always better than other riders no matter what is closer to Nazism: i.e. not a matter-of-fact Darwinist survival of the fittest, but rather starting from the premise that one is better than the other. I think that's exactly what's going on. I don't think that is a big problem though, as it might actually be true (and I'm definitely not talking about the evil sides of that ideology, just about the basic premise)..

And I know supporters of Contador also acknowledge weaknesses and strengths of other riders. However, I also feel that the lack of racedays of Contador in this Vuelta was exaggerated, compared to previous years where other people were comparatively better than Contador because they were fresh. Or about the case of Contador gifting away stages to the likes of Anton because he couldn't be bothered rather than that someone else was faster than him on a certain day (I don't want to go into that in detail, we've had this discussion, just pointing it out). I feel different standards are and were used.

I don't buy in the "he is always better than someone else". It depends on time and day and I don't think Contador, or anyone, is as unbeatable every single day of the year. That is why I agree with airstream who's simply saying that things can change and have changed and will continue to do so and that the reasoning that Contador is the best rider can be challenged. That's all.
Wow I now actually know what he was saying.
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  #500  
Old 11-25-12, 08:18
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Alberto isn't unbeatable. But he is unbeatable when he's at his best.
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