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  #1  
Old 10-24-12, 22:11
abbaskip abbaskip is offline
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Default Team Time Trials

What does everyone think of the TTT in a Grand Tour?

Whilst it's a good spectacle, I don't like it. It gives even more advantage to those riders with strong teams, rather than the strongest rider in my eyes.

You look back when Ullrich narrowly lost to Lance Armstrong in 2003, the Team Time Trial Team Telekom lost by 1'30", Ullrich ended up losing the tour by just over a minute. ie. The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong was the Team Time Trial. When you consider that Ullrich blitzed Armstrong in the first individual time trial, and narrowly lost the final time trial (after falling off - taking risks trying to make up the minute deficit) I think this is a really good example of why the Team Time Trial changes results.

Lance already had the advantage from his strong team, helping him in the mountains. Why should he gain time from the team time trial as well?

Any thoughts?
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Old 10-24-12, 22:15
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Magnus Magnus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abbaskip View Post
You look back when Ullrich narrowly lost to Lance Armstrong in 2003, the Team Time Trial Team Telekom lost by 1'30", Ullrich ended up losing the tour by just over a minute. ie. The difference between Ullrich and Armstrong was the Team Time Trial. When you consider that Ullrich blitzed Armstrong in the first individual time trial, and narrowly lost the final time trial (after falling off - taking risks trying to make up the minute deficit) I think this is a really good example of why the Team Time Trial changes results.
Ullrich didn't ride for Telekom in 2003. And I'm pretty sure they had the idiot "maximum loss of 10 seconds per placing rule". And Lance Armstrong didn't win the 2003 TdF.

Edit:
OK, they didn't have the idiot rule, but Bianchi only lost 43 seconds in the TTT so it's a moot point.

Last edited by Magnus; 10-24-12 at 22:20.
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Old 10-24-12, 22:16
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Lance who?
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Old 10-24-12, 23:45
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Yeah I remember him winning Fleche Wallonne and the Worlds in the 90s but then he kinda fell off the map.
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Old 10-24-12, 23:58
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Loving the comments
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Old 10-25-12, 00:04
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Its a simple.matter of right and wrong.

Ttts are the equivalent of giving some riders a huge headstart over others.

They also often ruin the spectacle- eg when Andy schleck gains time in the ttt meaning he neutralizes the mountains, and idiots like rcs aso and unipublic use it instead of tts which would actually liven the race up.
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Old 10-25-12, 01:25
abbaskip abbaskip is offline
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Oops, knew Jan was racing for Bianchi that year too.

It's still not a moot point though. The fact is that going into the final time trial there would have been about 22 seconds difference instead of the 1 minute plus. That's a huge difference. Who know show the final TT would have unfolded in that case.

The point is that the team has enough influence, in being able to help in the mountains etc. Having a Team Time Trial helps them even more.

Look at a case like Andy Schleck - when he had engines like Cancellara, O'Grady, and Voigt riding for him - yet contributed not much himself on a TTT stage.

A Grand Tour GC should be about the best rider, not the best team. Teams will always influence results, but they shouldn't have as much control as they do in the Team Time Trial.
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Old 10-25-12, 02:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abbaskip View Post
A Grand Tour GC should be about the best rider, not the best team. Teams will always influence results, but they shouldn't have as much control as they do in the Team Time Trial.
And yet when we look at the issue of the UCI points system, many of the critics wish for more recognition of the team.

EG There have been suggestions for the team, rather than the rider, to get points such that he cannot take them to a new team and/or for points earned in a race to be split amongst all riders of the team rather than just those that finish off the work for a result.

So given the current juxtaposition of teams being within what is technically an individual sport, a team time trial, if nothing else, serves to resolve that, imo.
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Old 10-25-12, 03:02
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I don't like them at all. I wish they would disappear.
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Old 10-25-12, 05:15
abbaskip abbaskip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swuzzlebubble View Post
And yet when we look at the issue of the UCI points system, many of the critics wish for more recognition of the team.

EG There have been suggestions for the team, rather than the rider, to get points such that he cannot take them to a new team and/or for points earned in a race to be split amongst all riders of the team rather than just those that finish off the work for a result.

So given the current juxtaposition of teams being within what is technically an individual sport, a team time trial, if nothing else, serves to resolve that, imo.
I don't mind teams being entered into events etc on what is generally a team by team basis (though wild cards can bring in any individuals who aren't in big enough teams). But having an individual race result changed so drastically by a team's result is silly.
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