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  #1  
Old 11-14-12, 20:22
Tommysmo Tommysmo is offline
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Default Rider Points System

Purito makes a good point regarding the fact that domestiques receive no points for burying themselves for the greater good of the team. I believe the TEAM should receive points for race results and that a rider's minimum points total should be the team points total. You can then add on individual points for the top tier of riders that win.

I'm sure I've probably missed some of the intricacies of what the point system needs to do. However, this is a TEAM sport, is it not?

Cheers! -Tom
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Old 11-14-12, 20:49
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Arnout Arnout is offline
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Cycling is not a team sport. Not in the classic sense of the word. Since it's invention, cycling is about workers sacrificing themselves for no obvious benefit. It's the DNA of the sport, just like the part where you need to work together with your opponent to beat him.

Let's not ruin that part just because a prepostrous ranking system needs to be fixed. It will increase the accounting in this sport even more.
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Old 11-14-12, 21:06
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommysmo View Post
Purito makes a good point regarding the fact that domestiques receive no points for burying themselves for the greater good of the team. I believe the TEAM should receive points for race results and that a rider's minimum points total should be the team points total. You can then add on individual points for the top tier of riders that win.

I'm sure I've probably missed some of the intricacies of what the point system needs to do. However, this is a TEAM sport, is it not?

Cheers! -Tom
purito shouldn't whine, if he cares so much about his helpers he should let them kepe their job, he decides, because he has the points. and as arnout said. cycling isn't a teamsport
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Old 11-14-12, 21:35
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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He's not talking about his helpers, but about Joost Posthuma...
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horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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Old 11-15-12, 01:55
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42x16ss 42x16ss is offline
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He's not talking about his helpers, but about Joost Posthuma...
That's right and he's only one example. Amets Txurruka is another. These are examples of guys who rarely win but are respected in the peleton and worthy of World Tour rides.

Yet next year, they won't be getting them because some sub-standard rider from Asia or the Middle East dominated their continental tour against semi-pro's and have enough points to help tip a team into the top 15. These riders are more likely to ride like Mehdi Sohrabi than Daniel Teklehaimanot but they have points, and this is what matters.

From a clinic point of view it's a terrible system too. It sends the message that riders must be strong enough to be effective leaders on their teams - not just strong doms - or they'll lose their contract.

Think of some great domestiques over the last few years - Neil Stephens, Inigo Cuesta, Bert Grabsch, Wim Vansevenant, Eros Poli etc. If this system stays in place guys like them will cease to exist.

Last edited by 42x16ss; 11-15-12 at 02:10.
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  #6  
Old 11-15-12, 02:37
Steve H. Steve H. is offline
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The Inner Ring did a good job explaining the system.
http://inrng.com/2012/11/sporting-va...ed/#more-11771
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Old 11-15-12, 03:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42x16ss View Post
That's right and he's only one example. Amets Txurruka is another. These are examples of guys who rarely win but are respected in the peleton and worthy of World Tour rides.

Yet next year, they won't be getting them because some sub-standard rider from Asia or the Middle East dominated their continental tour against semi-pro's and have enough points to help tip a team into the top 15. These riders are more likely to ride like Mehdi Sohrabi than Daniel Teklehaimanot but they have points, and this is what matters.

From a clinic point of view it's a terrible system too. It sends the message that riders must be strong enough to be effective leaders on their teams - not just strong doms - or they'll lose their contract.

Think of some great domestiques over the last few years - Neil Stephens, Inigo Cuesta, Bert Grabsch, Wim Vansevenant, Eros Poli etc. If this system stays in place guys like them will cease to exist.
Exactly, it's just like Matt Brammeier said, domestiques are an endangered species. The points system desperately needs to change. A rider shouldn't find themselves out of a job because they're not one of the top riders in the world that doesn't get a lot of points, and riders shouldn't be hired based on their points. They should be hired based on their skills and what they can contribute to the team, be it a strong domestique for the team leader or a winning rider.
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Old 11-15-12, 06:25
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Tigerion Tigerion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnout View Post
Cycling is not a team sport. Not in the classic sense of the word. Since it's invention, cycling is about workers sacrificing themselves for no obvious benefit. It's the DNA of the sport, just like the part where you need to work together with your opponent to beat him.

Let's not ruin that part just because a prepostrous ranking system needs to be fixed. It will increase the accounting in this sport even more.
But what you are calling the very DNA of cycling is what is under threat. Nobody will be willing to be a worker because you will bust your gut and then have no reward and will not ride again next season.
If you want a pro level peloton then you need to ensure that there remains a role for workers
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Old 11-15-12, 07:41
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Maybe an answer is to only count the points of the top 10-12 riders from each team?

There will still be a need to sign riders with points, but those who don't have any can still be kept on to contribute to the team as a whole.
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Old 11-15-12, 08:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerion View Post
But what you are calling the very DNA of cycling is what is under threat. Nobody will be willing to be a worker because you will bust your gut and then have no reward and will not ride again next season.
If you want a pro level peloton then you need to ensure that there remains a role for workers
If you're gonna give points for helping, it will mean every team will do a Skytrain or even a Radioshack for the team classification. Doesn't help one bit in terms of entertainment and the end result will stay the same: we will rely on the wildcards even more to spice things up.

The point system should just be ditched, there are barely any obvious candidates for ProTour spots anyway. A new one might be designed, only giving a few points for winning a monument or getting a podium in a GT. Problem solved.
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