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  #21  
Old 11-15-12, 14:22
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Oscar sevilla and Felix cardenas are the best climbers in the world?



What is the point of this post? We are trying to compare the times of.vos and Gilbert up the cauberg from the 2012 worlds and you post the time for every other cauberg ascent in history apart.from the relevant ones
Because I couldn't find those times. Though everyone with a little common sense knows she didn't went as fast as Gilbert.
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horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #22  
Old 11-15-12, 14:27
theyoungest theyoungest is offline
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That's because when it is on telly it's extremely hyped because we happen to have the best woman cyclist at the moment.
Yes, I know it's problematic when facts are introduced in the discussion, certainly when they contradict everything you say. Of course Marianne Vos helps the ratings, but I'm sure Philippe Gilbert and Tom Boonen help the ratings in Belgium...

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NOS is very good at only focusing on sports when Dutch athletes compete, and only focus on the Dutch athletes: that's why male cycling coverage is dreadful and many people (not only CN.commers) watch male cycling on Sporza.
Sporza, where they don't focus on Belgian cyclists

Some hardcore cycling fans watch Sporza, yes. But the same goes for the women's race on Sporza...

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Remember when the Dutch ladies football (soccer) team was doing well a couple of years back, during a Euro Championship or something. NOS doesn't bother with women football usually, but when there is a bandwagon, they're very eager to jump on it. They broadcast one match, 2 million viewers. After that hype, no-one cares about women soccer anymore.

Long story short: those occasional viewing figures are not representative at all.
Because the Dutch people don't know anything at all about women's soccer. Women's cycling, they're more informed about (if mostly due to our successful history in that segment of the sport) and this generates more interest. As is the case in most sports. That's why the Dutch don't watch shorttrack, and they do watch longtrack speedskating, although the former is very much the bigger sport.
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  #23  
Old 11-15-12, 14:32
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Because I couldn't find those times. Though everyone with a little common sense knows she didn't went as fast as Gilbert.
To lend a line from my dear friends the wiggins and froome fans - you have no proof
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  #24  
Old 11-15-12, 14:48
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The problem with your arguments, to all of yous who celebrate that women's cycling is treated poorly and justify your misogyny with- " the demand isnt there, haha " is that demand works both ways.

There is less demand for.women's cycling because the races aren't being shown in the first place. If eurosport didn't show mens cycling i and many others in this country would never have been hooked in the first place. same goes.for.absolutely every sport out there. People don't just wake up and out of the blue say - i want to.be a fan of a sport where people do.this that or the other. The idea has to come.from.somewhere.

Its no coincidence that the sports where male and female competition run together and are broadcast together, are the sports in which women athletes achieve the greatest popular acclaim.

Why is there no demand for women's cycling? Because its not being shown in the first place.
To an extent, you're absolutely right. Again, I don't mind if TV stations choose to show women racing and sure, audience will grow if they show it. It will never be equal though, due to mentioned reasons (just look at interest for female vs male tennis, the most equal sport currently). Thus, demanding equality is, in my eyes, not justified.

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Originally Posted by theyoungest View Post
Yes, I know it's problematic when facts are introduced in the discussion, certainly when they contradict everything you say. Of course Marianne Vos helps the ratings, but I'm sure Philippe Gilbert and Tom Boonen help the ratings in Belgium...


Sporza, where they don't focus on Belgian cyclists

Some hardcore cycling fans watch Sporza, yes. But the same goes for the women's race on Sporza...


Because the Dutch people don't know anything at all about women's soccer. Women's cycling, they're more informed about (if mostly due to our successful history in that segment of the sport) and this generates more interest. As is the case in most sports. That's why the Dutch don't watch shorttrack, and they do watch longtrack speedskating, although the former is very much the bigger sport.
Of course, I might be wrong. However, it's not because of your facts, as those are so situational that it is statistically rubbish to extrapolate them to a general setting.

I don't think there is a major difference between women cycling and women football though, they are both the female counterparts of the male sport, with a lot less interest but with the same rules. I struggle to see why there would be a lot more interest for female cycling in general (apart from the Vos phenomenon) compared to female football, considering male soccer is way more popular than male cycling.
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  #25  
Old 11-15-12, 15:07
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
Because I couldn't find those times. Though everyone with a little common sense knows she didn't went as fast as Gilbert.
that's because you don't have my blog bookmarked

http://climbing-records.blogspot.ro/...-sets-new.html

vos was/is an amazing athlete though.


there are amazing athletes in women cycling too but overall the level is a joke.
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  #26  
Old 11-15-12, 15:18
Matthijs Matthijs is offline
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It's such a moronic discussion really. "I only want to watch men's cycling because men are stronger than women". Who the f.ck cares, as long as there is a level playing field? I'd choose the Giro Donne anytime over 90% of men's races.
I think your right. Women's racing, or any womens sport shouldn't be compared to mens sport. The level of a sport is not significant to me. But the competition can be compared.
If there are 1000 full time men pro racers and 60 parttime pro women racers, for me it's fair if the price is lower. If the women race over distances as long as 17 year old boys do, it's fair too. In the Marathon the women can take more time, but run the same length.
I can imagine there is some difference in length. But the differences are too high. To me, the UCI has to make sure half of the WT races has a womens race. If a country has 4 WT events, there should be 2 lady's Tours/one day events. Every monument and every GT a weeklong race. If that happens, women cycling can grow and become more mature. Then I will consider equel payment.
Besides, sport is entertainment. Nobody is saying Madonna and Michael Jackson should earn the samen.
And yes off course I watch Sporza, if you stick with the NOS you never learn anything about cycling. They just **** about doping, not about racing.

Climbing times after 260 and 130k are not to be compared. Still a great accomplishment of Vos though.

Sporza btw focusses on Belgium guys off course, but also on Dutch cyclist. A lot of interviews (same language) and knowedge about Dutch cyclist. If there are 20 Belgiums who can win and 5 Dutch guys, they ignore the Dutch. But if there are 8 Belgiums and 3 Dutch guys, they will talk a lot about the Dutch riders too. Probably because allmost all Dutch pro's ride from their junior years topraces in Belgium and the Sporza people know them better then most Wallons.

Last edited by Matthijs; 11-15-12 at 15:27.
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  #27  
Old 11-15-12, 15:39
maltiv maltiv is offline
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Didn't Marianne Vos ride up the final climb of the Cauberg at the Worlds in the same time as Philippe Gilbert? Good luck with that.
20 seconds slower, actually.

It's a shame the competition in women's cycling is so low, but if the races actually were televised and the payments increased then obviously more girls would come to the sport, resulting in a higher level of competition. At the moment it's a bit ridiculous that Marianne Vos is by far the best sprinter, climber, puncheur, classics-specialist and CX rider (probably track+MTB as well) in the world. She's an amazing athlete, no doubt, but if there were more competition she obviously wouldn't be able to dominate in all those disciplines simultaneously.
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  #28  
Old 11-15-12, 15:41
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Originally Posted by jens_attacks View Post
that's because you don't have my blog bookmarked

http://climbing-records.blogspot.ro/...-sets-new.html

vos was/is an amazing athlete though.


there are amazing athletes in women cycling too but overall the level is a joke.
Yeah, I was looking through your posts because I knew you kept track of them.

I bookmarked it now though.
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #29  
Old 11-15-12, 15:53
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Bavarianrider Bavarianrider is offline
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Women belong in the kitchen, not on a bike
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  #30  
Old 11-15-12, 15:56
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Originally Posted by maltiv View Post
20 seconds slower, actually.

.
Though vos did race the last few laps whereas philbert only showed his face in the last km having sat in.the bunch all.day. With that kind of treatment vos could maybe have gone sun 1.40
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Quote:
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If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
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