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View Poll Results: Better Cobblestone rider: Boonen or Cancellara?
Boonen 76 52.05%
Cancellara 70 47.95%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

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  #191  
Old 12-09-12, 17:35
silverrocket silverrocket is offline
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Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Saying that cancellara is not a great bike handler because he had a crash is like sayonv that cav isnt a great sprintee because he lost a sprint.
We were discussing who was better at positioning and strategy in races, and I made the claim that Boonen was better at this than Cancellara. I still maintain this, as bike handling and descending are completely different things. Ryo countered by saying Cancellara is one of the best at"placing and steering", and I joked that he wasn't exactly the best at "steering" going around that corner in the Olympics. Cancellara himself said it was a case of bad bike handling.

That's what was said. A few posts later people are angrily telling me how great a descender Cancellara is, and now Hitch is mocking me for something I never said, that Cancellara is "not a great bike handler" because he had that crash.

A few people here need to settle down a bit before they respond.
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  #192  
Old 12-09-12, 18:19
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Originally Posted by silverrocket View Post
We were discussing who was better at positioning and strategy in races, and I made the claim that Boonen was better at this than Cancellara. I still maintain this, as bike handling and descending are completely different things. Ryo countered by saying Cancellara is one of the best at"placing and steering", and I joked that he wasn't exactly the best at "steering" going around that corner in the Olympics. Cancellara himself said it was a case of bad bike handling.

That's what was said. A few posts later people are angrily telling me how great a descender Cancellara is, and now Hitch is mocking me for something I never said, that Cancellara is "not a great bike handler" because he had that crash.

A few people here need to settle down a bit before they respond.
Im not mocking anyone. People are calling into question Cancellara being the best bike handler because of 1 crash and i am ridiculing the idea.

Maybe " a few people" need to stop taking a discussion among anonymous posters on the internet personally.
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If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
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  #193  
Old 12-09-12, 18:27
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So for those who voted Cancellara as best overall cobbled classic rider up until now(that was the OP's point) how do you explain Boonen winning more?

And please don't start with "he's a sprinter".

Paris-Roubaix 2005: Cancellara wasn't in the final group with Boonen.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2005: Boonen won solo.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2006: Cancellara wasn't in the final group with Boonen.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2007: despite a crash he still finishes almost a minute before Cancellara.
Paris-Roubaix 2007: breakaway survives. Boonen is the strongest man of the favorites. Cancellara gets dropped.
Paris-Roubaix 2008: heavy battle between Ballan, Boonen and Cancellara. Boonen controlled the whole race and had the most energy left. Won the sprint by 30 bike lengths or something. Boonen is fast, but Cancellara normally isn't that slow. He was cramping up till behind his ears.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2009: Boonen easily the strongest man in the race together with "the shadow" Pippo Pozzato. His teammate Devolder wins because of that.
Paris-Roubaix 2009: Boonen won solo.
Paris-Roubaix 2012: Boonen won solo. Cancellara was not there.

E3 Prijs Vlaanderen 2006: Boonen wins in a sprint against Ballan. Cancellara wasn't in the final group with Boonen.
Gent-Wevelgem 2003: Boonen finished third in a group of 3. Cancellara finishes more than a minute back on Boonen.
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week

Last edited by El Pistolero; 12-09-12 at 18:42.
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  #194  
Old 12-09-12, 18:36
18-Valve. (pithy) 18-Valve. (pithy) is offline
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
So for those who voted Cancellara as best overall cobbled classic rider up until now(that was the OP's point)
It was? If that was his point then why did he start this thread? It would be utterly pointless.
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  #195  
Old 12-09-12, 18:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miburo View Post
Clearing up the issue of 'right now'.

The aim of this thread is 'who do you think is the overall better cobblestone rider' based on their performances until now. So not just who is right now better.

By that logic Wiggins is a better GC rider than AS.
.......................
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #196  
Old 12-09-12, 19:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
So for those who voted Cancellara as best overall cobbled classic rider up until now(that was the OP's point) how do you explain Boonen winning more?

And please don't start with "he's a sprinter".

Paris-Roubaix 2005: Cancellara wasn't in the final group with Boonen.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2005: Boonen won solo.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2006: Cancellara wasn't in the final group with Boonen.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2007: despite a crash he still finishes almost a minute before Cancellara.
Paris-Roubaix 2007: breakaway survives. Boonen is the strongest man of the favorites. Cancellara gets dropped.
Paris-Roubaix 2008: heavy battle between Ballan, Boonen and Cancellara. Boonen controlled the whole race and had the most energy left. Won the sprint by 30 bike lengths or something. Boonen is fast, but Cancellara normally isn't that slow. He was cramping up till behind his ears.
Ronde van Vlaanderen 2009: Boonen easily the strongest man in the race together with "the shadow" Pippo Pozzato. His teammate Devolder wins because of that.
Paris-Roubaix 2009: Boonen won solo.
Paris-Roubaix 2012: Boonen won solo. Cancellara was not there.

E3 Prijs Vlaanderen 2006: Boonen wins in a sprint against Ballan. Cancellara wasn't in the final group with Boonen.
Gent-Wevelgem 2003: Boonen finished third in a group of 3. Cancellara finishes more than a minute back on Boonen.
Canc had a flat tire in roubaix '05 and bringing up '09 is ridiculous. Canc wasn't near 100% at that point. It's way worse than bringing up Boonen '11 for example.

It ****es me off though, boonen should have won at least 1 RVV in 08 or 09.

Paris-roubaix '07: Boonen was indeed clearly the best. He should have won that race too. That's why you should never let a break of 20 guys go in roubaix.
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  #197  
Old 12-09-12, 23:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
IPeople are calling into question Cancellara being the best bike handler because of 1 crash and i am ridiculing the idea.
But considering E3 2011, AGR 2011, RVV 2012, ORR 2012 it might be reasonable to question the narrative that FC is the best bike handler in the world.
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  #198  
Old 12-10-12, 00:18
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Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
But considering E3 2011, AGR 2011, RVV 2012, ORR 2012 it might be reasonable to question the narrative that FC is the best bike handler in the world.
AGR and olympics fair dues.

RVV no because it was a bottle that brought him down.

What happened in e3 2011?

But part of being the best bike handler is that you are constantly taking risks. A **** bike handler like Schleck or Basso meanwhile who knows he will crash if tries anything, takes every corner every descent
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The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
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  #199  
Old 12-10-12, 00:18
silverrocket silverrocket is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Im not mocking anyone. People are calling into question Cancellara being the best bike handler because of 1 crash and i am ridiculing the idea.

Maybe " a few people" need to stop taking a discussion among anonymous posters on the internet personally.
You are ridiculing a misrepresentation of something I said (or rather, did not say). Most people would take that personally.

I am mostly just irritated, since knee-jerk responses to certain posts, and angry responses to things that were never even said, have derailed the actual discussion. Let's start again:

I don't think Cancellara is as good at positioning or strategy as Boonen is, and that's why Boonen is the better cobblestone rider.
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  #200  
Old 12-10-12, 00:22
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The Hitch The Hitch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverrocket View Post
You are ridiculing a misrepresentation of something I said (or rather, did not say). Most people would take that personally.

I am mostly just irritated, since knee-jerk responses to certain posts, and angry responses to things that were never even said, have derailed the actual discussion. Let's start again:

I don't think Cancellara is as good at positioning or strategy as Boonen is, and that's why Boonen is the better cobblestone rider.
I wasnt even talking to you.

Not that I care if you take what i say personally or not.

And to prove it:

**** you
__________________
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
Reply With Quote
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