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View Poll Results: Better overall rider
Cadel Evans 34 22.08%
Alberto Contador 120 77.92%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

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  #201  
Old 12-17-12, 18:29
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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
Doping is part of this sport. Silencing the problem is pointless.


And you can go talk about it to your hearts content in the clinic, where you might learn that just because you like a rider doesnt mean they are clean.
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  #202  
Old 12-17-12, 19:08
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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post

He's 35.
He was 34 (and not 33 as I wrongly mentioned above).
So, you have decided that age is a mitigating factor?
I guess we'll have to wait until Contador is 35 and see what else he wins in the 5 years, then.


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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post


However in 2004, he raced from Valencia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2005, from the Nats (January) to Germany (August)
In 2006, from Down Under (January) to Zurich (October)
In 2007, from Andalucia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2008, from Andalucia (February) to Emily (October)
In 2009, from Andalucia (February) to Lombardy (October)
In 2010, from Down Under (January) to the Worlds (September)

Right?
An Aussie racing in Oz during the Summer? Does that even count?
Not in my book.

In 2008, Contador was not just riding, but winning stage races in March, a GT in May, then another GT in mid-September. Then had his first stage race win of the next season in Februrary, 2009.
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  #203  
Old 12-17-12, 19:55
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Originally Posted by Mellow Velo View Post
So, you have decided that age is a mitigating factor?
I guess we'll have to wait until Contador is 35 and see what else he wins in the 5 years, then.
Indeed, with Echoes logic we should compare the palmares of a 30 y Evans against a 30 y Contador.

Pretty clear what the answer is...
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  #204  
Old 12-17-12, 19:58
Echoes Echoes is offline
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Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
And you can go talk about it to your hearts content in the clinic, where you might learn that just because you like a rider doesnt mean they are clean.
Caricature won't help you, son.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellow Velo
So, you have decided that age is a mitigating factor?
Yes indeed, I guess even my cousin who is 1 year old can tell you that at age 35, you don't have the same recuperating skills as at age 26.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellow Velo
An Aussie racing in Oz during the Summer? Does that even count?
Not in my book.
You're right. An Italian racing Lombardy does not count either. Or a Dutchie racing Amstel, a German racing Francfurt GP, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellow Velo
In 2008, Contador was not just riding, but winning stage races in March, a GT in May, then another GT in mid-September. Then had his first stage race win of the next season in Februrary, 2009.
Contador fans are really trained in the pilpul method. Debunking my arguments with one particular case, because they are incapable of any global vision. So that won't change the global consistency of my reasoning. Florecita showed you the Contador ridiculously light calendars. It's very easy to explain that he raced the Vuelta in 2008 because he was kept from Bore de France. And any time he would race Bore de France, be sure he would stop in July. If not, I would apologize.

I haven't calculated Evans racing days every year in his prime. But it must be around 90.

In 2009 Olivier Kaisen raced for around 110 days. That was twice as much as Contador that year. Who deserves more credit?

Last edited by Echoes; 12-17-12 at 20:06.
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  #205  
Old 12-17-12, 20:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
Caricature won't help you, son.




Yes indeed, I guess even my cousin who is 1 year old can tell you that at age 35, you don't have the same recuperating skills as at age 26.



You're right. An Italian racing Lombardy does not count either. Or a Dutchie racing Amstel, a German racing Francfurt GP, etc.




Contador fans are really trained in the pilpul method. Debunking my arguments with one particular case, because they are incapable of any global vision. So that won't change the global consistency of my reasoning. Florecita showed you the Contador ridiculously light calendars. It's very easy to explain that he raced the Vuelta in 2008 because he was kept from Bore de France. And any time he would race Bore de France, be sure he would stop in July. If not, I would apologize.

I haven't calculated Evans racing days every year in his prime. But it must be around 90.

In 2009 Olivier Kaisen raced for around 110 days. That was twice as much as Contador that year. Who deserves more credit?
In 2008 Evans had 68 racing days

2011: 57
2012: 52
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  #206  
Old 12-17-12, 20:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netserk View Post
In 2008 Evans had 68 racing days

2011: 57
2012: 52
Hahahaha 2008 same as Alberto. in 2011 Alberto had more. Hahaha.
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Froome see's how Contador is already dressing himself in yellow in anticipation for July, how he rides with no helmet without fear, how he and his loyal second in command Kreuziger have grown thin, how he takes on the sprinters in a bunch sprint, and how Contador has given previews of what others will face in July in the form of Giro 2011 pictures....

...and he feels fear...
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  #207  
Old 12-17-12, 20:16
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Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post

Contador fans are really trained in the pilpul method. Debunking my arguments with one particular case, because they are incapable of any global vision.
Except I'm not a Contador fan. I just worship pro racing, not individual cyclists.
Although, I don't claim to be a global visionary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
I haven't calculated Evans racing days every year in his prime. But it must be around 90.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netserk View Post
In 2008 Evans had 68 racing days

2011: 57
2012: 52
Oooh err, the numbers don't lie.
Just a tad out with that guess.
Less than Bertie in his last full season.
So I guess it's back to the drawing board.
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Last edited by Mellow Velo; 12-17-12 at 20:23.
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  #208  
Old 12-17-12, 20:25
Echoes Echoes is offline
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Pilpul again.


2009 figures, please?

Could you bring me that for tomorrow? I'm off now.
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  #209  
Old 12-17-12, 20:34
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Quality over quantity obviously.
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  #210  
Old 12-17-12, 20:42
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Afrank Afrank is offline
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Evans
2009- 87
2008- 68
2007- 85

Of course, more race days doesn't necessarily mean one rider is better than another. Quality over quantity like El P said. Nothing wrong with racing around 50-60 days as long as the rider gets the results.
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