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  #41  
Old 12-28-12, 19:43
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is online now
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Originally Posted by Xavier.Lopez View Post
I wouldn't compare both performances cause they have been made in different situations, on different routes etc. In 2012 Purito has almost won the Giro + 2 stages + a jersey.
Shleck's performance in 2007 was strong for a child, and I loved it but he wasn't very "active" although regular (several 3rd places) and his opponents were Di Luca and Mazolleni. Plus, the Giro 2007 was better for a climber than the Tour 2012 (100km flat ITT in the Tour against 42 in the Giro).
Ah, but that's comparing across year's. Schleck's 2007 Giro (2nd) was better than Pereiro's 2007 Tour (10th). Even in cases where the rider who finished 10th in the Tour is arguably a superior rider to that who was 2nd in the Giro, then when you rate the performances there is a difference in my opinion.

Rodríguez's 2012 Giro > Pinot's 2012 Tour
You could argue, I guess, in favour of Rolland's 2011 Tour > Scarponi's 2011 Giro (I know Scarponi's now the winner of the Giro but let's remember Contador was there and he affects how that race developed)
Arroyo's 2010 Giro >>>>> Horner's 2010 Tour
di Luca's 2009 Giro (dope-assisted of course) >>>>> le Mevel's 2009 Tour
Riccò's 2008 Giro (dope-assisted of course) >>>>> Tadej Valjavec's 2008 Tour

Coming 10th can be done with great panache, like Rolland and Pinot in the last two years, but it can also be thanks to a big-sized breakaway on an unofficial rest day (le Mevel and Horner) or through just being anonymously compiling results behind the heads of state (Valjavec). Coming 2nd in the Giro is, in all of those cases, about fighting for the win. Riccò won two stages of that Giro, di Luca won two stages and the points jersey (plus holding the pink and green for large stretches of time too), and we'll be watching clips of Arroyo in that legendary Aprica stage for years to come, where he was possessed by the ghost of the not-dead-yet Paolo Savoldelli trying to preserve his GT dream. Who remembers Horner in the 2010 Tour? And with the removal of Contador Luís León Sánchez would acquire that 10th place; do you remember his race? He was part of a very interesting break in the Col de la Madeleine stage where Caisse tried to get him into the GC mix, but other than that, nada.
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  #42  
Old 12-28-12, 20:18
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Xavier.Lopez Xavier.Lopez is offline
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Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
Ah, but that's comparing across year's. Schleck's 2007 Giro (2nd) was better than Pereiro's 2007 Tour (10th). Even in cases where the rider who finished 10th in the Tour is arguably a superior rider to that who was 2nd in the Giro, then when you rate the performances there is a difference in my opinion.

Rodríguez's 2012 Giro > Pinot's 2012 Tour
You could argue, I guess, in favour of Rolland's 2011 Tour > Scarponi's 2011 Giro (I know Scarponi's now the winner of the Giro but let's remember Contador was there and he affects how that race developed)
Arroyo's 2010 Giro >>>>> Horner's 2010 Tour
di Luca's 2009 Giro (dope-assisted of course) >>>>> le Mevel's 2009 Tour
Riccò's 2008 Giro (dope-assisted of course) >>>>> Tadej Valjavec's 2008 Tour

Coming 10th can be done with great panache, like Rolland and Pinot in the last two years, but it can also be thanks to a big-sized breakaway on an unofficial rest day (le Mevel and Horner) or through just being anonymously compiling results behind the heads of state (Valjavec). Coming 2nd in the Giro is, in all of those cases, about fighting for the win. Riccò won two stages of that Giro, di Luca won two stages and the points jersey (plus holding the pink and green for large stretches of time too), and we'll be watching clips of Arroyo in that legendary Aprica stage for years to come, where he was possessed by the ghost of the not-dead-yet Paolo Savoldelli trying to preserve his GT dream. Who remembers Horner in the 2010 Tour? And with the removal of Contador Luís León Sánchez would acquire that 10th place; do you remember his race? He was part of a very interesting break in the Col de la Madeleine stage where Caisse tried to get him into the GC mix, but other than that, nada.

Yes, it's why we have to study each case differently, a 10th place in a GT is most of the time thanks to a big breakaway, or a rider not very "active" but regular and who never had a "jour sans". On the paper, the 2nd of the Giro is far more better than the 10th of the Tour.
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  #43  
Old 12-28-12, 21:02
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Joe DOmbrowski is a serious climbing talent

i have picked him as one of my riders to watch despite being with sky who normally hold riders back in their first year. He is just too damn good a climber, while stamp himself as super domestique in climbs for giro if he goes. Hoping sky give him plenty chances to race stateside too as he will do well their.

Imagine how good he will get with the sky training plan althou as small teams go bontanger were pretty decent set up.
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  #44  
Old 12-28-12, 23:58
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Originally Posted by manafana View Post
Joe DOmbrowski is a serious climbing talent

i have picked him as one of my riders to watch despite being with sky who normally hold riders back in their first year. He is just too damn good a climber, while stamp himself as super domestique in climbs for giro if he goes. Hoping sky give him plenty chances to race stateside too as he will do well their.

Imagine how good he will get with the sky training plan althou as small teams go bontanger were pretty decent set up.
+1, his performance at the Giro Bio was incredible. And it's great that he will probably already be riding the Giro in his first year. I'll be keeping a close eye on him. I just hope Sky doesn't turn him into a domestique diesel climber.
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  #45  
Old 12-29-12, 04:05
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Yeah, forgot about him. Don't really know him that well, but there's been lot's of talk about him here, so I'm curious as to how he'll do.

Pretty heavy program for a neo pro though. I could be wrong, but I don't think even Sagan rode a GT in his first year.
Neither did Moser.

One rider who i think will go very well is Boswell- sure Dombrowski has better results but Boswell shall also go well i think.
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  #46  
Old 12-29-12, 10:23
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Neither did Moser.

One rider who i think will go very well is Boswell- sure Dombrowski has better results but Boswell shall also go well i think.
regarding sagan comment from poster you copied their was no reason to race Sagan in GTs since he was suited to winning stages and one days so no need send him off for 3weeks to do so.

With Dombrowski he will be at his best on moutain days, and most likely to find them in grand tours he will be great in dolomites and the alpes. One grand tour is no harm

Boswell will be great right hand man in future but not as good from what i saw.
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  #48  
Old 12-29-12, 16:42
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Majka

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Good domestique potential but not someone IMO who will ever trade it out with the heads of state or anything.
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  #49  
Old 12-29-12, 20:31
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in italian ? whats the gist of it any thoughts?
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  #50  
Old 12-30-12, 09:19
janraaskalt janraaskalt is offline
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in italian ? whats the gist of it any thoughts?
Looks Spanish to me, but rider's names are still understandable.
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