2013 Santos Tour Down Under: 20th Jan - 27th Jan - Page 9 - Cyclingnews Forum

Go Back   Cyclingnews Forum > Road > Professional road racing

Professional road racing A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 01-03-13, 00:15
Spider1964's Avatar
Spider1964 Spider1964 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: God's Own Country
Posts: 425
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrulo View Post
never understood why in some countries like australia lab results were given such importance.

we have never seen lab results from guys like contador, schleck, gilbert, Costa and Valverde and we knew all along from the young ranks they would almost certainly be top riders.
In Australia we knew most of these guys were going to be top riders, prior to knowing their lab results. They only get tested once they're in the academies.

On Cam Meyer, he had a funny twitter exchange with Luke Durbridge early this week.. stole Durbridges Strava KOM at Kings Park (in Perth) after Durbridge had left town.
__________________
The fact is, no one has done more to make doping in sports seem like an evil than Lance Armstrong in his prime, desperately, passionately, ferociously guarding the perception that he was clean.
Gwen Knapp

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/52357070/
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 01-03-13, 00:30
PCutter PCutter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by auscyclefan94 View Post
Lab results have only been given high importance in Australia because of Evans breaking all of the lab records at the AIS and being described as one of the most talented athletes they have had at the AIS, according to the sport scientists. Due to the Evans achieving many top results, this has now become a defining indicator of talent on the road for future riders, which I believe is wrong.
Your wrong (often).

The focus on lab results isn't because Cadel has good numbers (but no surprise you place everything in the prism of how it compares to Cadel). Lab results in Australia and other countries (like the UK) are given prominence because so much of our junior development is based on developing track riders. This is because government funding is dependent on delivering Olympic success (as the government rightly doesn't fund the development of professional sports). There is thus a lot of data on these riders which is very useful for comparison of potential. For those with the outstanding testing results it can be a very good indicator, but of course, more than numbers makes a champion, so bad luck, injury, mental ability all come int to it when separating the talented to the talented with results.

I think given the achievements of Australian cycling over recent years (constantly ranked top 5ish on the World Tour with a regular stream of new talent) that there is significant evidence that what they do (checking the numbers) works. It is why the UK adopted a very similar structure, and is the reason why Italy has been studying the Australian Institute of Sport and Cycling Australia methodologies. Its also why when Richie Porte and Will Clarke were searching for WT teams that Bjarne Riis asked to see their numbers. Its not just text book theory. And has very little to do with 'what did Cadel do', though of course his numbers were fantastic. PS. Durbridge broke Cadels AIS record for ramps last year.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 01-03-13, 00:35
PCutter PCutter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrulo View Post
never understood why in some countries like australia lab results were given such importance.

we have never seen lab results from guys like contador, schleck, gilbert, Costa and Valverde and we knew all along from the young ranks they would almost certainly be top riders.
That can largely be traced to the fact that Australian cycling development is more built around track racing (due to funding). Australia doesn't have as strong road cycling calendar on which juniors are able to show their abilities, more crits where its difficult to show your talent other than for sprinters.

If we had the same development road series of mountainous stage races like in Spain Im sure the likes of Cameron Meyer, Bobridge, Durbridge et al would be who we talked about without the numbers and testing as they would still be dominant juniors, but on track, numbers are monitored closely because of the more controlled environment of track riding and in particular pursuit.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 01-03-13, 02:02
auscyclefan94's Avatar
auscyclefan94 auscyclefan94 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,882
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCutter View Post
Your wrong (often).

The focus on lab results isn't because Cadel has good numbers (but no surprise you place everything in the prism of how it compares to Cadel). Lab results in Australia and other countries (like the UK) are given prominence because so much of our junior development is based on developing track riders. This is because government funding is dependent on delivering Olympic success (as the government rightly doesn't fund the development of professional sports). There is thus a lot of data on these riders which is very useful for comparison of potential. For those with the outstanding testing results it can be a very good indicator, but of course, more than numbers makes a champion, so bad luck, injury, mental ability all come int to it when separating the talented to the talented with results.

I think given the achievements of Australian cycling over recent years (constantly ranked top 5ish on the World Tour with a regular stream of new talent) that there is significant evidence that what they do (checking the numbers) works. It is why the UK adopted a very similar structure, and is the reason why Italy has been studying the Australian Institute of Sport and Cycling Australia methodologies. Its also why when Richie Porte and Will Clarke were searching for WT teams that Bjarne Riis asked to see their numbers. Its not just text book theory. And has very little to do with 'what did Cadel do', though of course his numbers were fantastic. PS. Durbridge broke Cadels AIS record for ramps last year.
I was referring to the media's focus on the numbers. So in this instance, your attack is wrong. btw, the correct in English is "you're wrong" not "your wrong". Therefore, you are wrong again.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggercuz View Post
second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.

Last edited by auscyclefan94; 01-03-13 at 02:05.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 01-03-13, 02:11
PCutter PCutter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by auscyclefan94 View Post
I was referring to the media's focus on the numbers. So in this instance, your attack is wrong. btw, the correct in English is "you're wrong" not "your wrong". Therefore, you are wrong again.
Gee, a forum contributor trying to pull people up for grammar, how unusual - and from someone who doesn't understand the definition of 'walkover'.

Nor 'attack'. I simply stated why numbers matter.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 01-03-13, 02:14
auscyclefan94's Avatar
auscyclefan94 auscyclefan94 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,882
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCutter View Post
Gee, a forum contributor trying to pull people up for grammar, how unusual - and from someone who doesn't understand the definition of 'walkover'.

Nor 'attack'. I simply stated why numbers matter.
I understand the definition of walkover thanks. See, I was able to admit that my language was too strong in that instance. That fact that you had to say "Your wrong (often)" clearly demonstrated you were trying to attack me, in a rather cheap manner.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggercuz View Post
second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 01-03-13, 02:15
Parrulo's Avatar
Parrulo Parrulo is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,979
Default

enough with the bickering, both of you.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 01-03-13, 02:19
blaxland blaxland is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,233
Default

All the numbers in the world won't help Orica/Greenedge in Grand tours"Until they hire someone with decent GC credentials.Cam meyer may end up being a good week long stage racer but i can't see him doing any better than a top 20 GC result.Hope they prove me wrong?
My pick for TDU is N.Haas (Garmin)
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 01-03-13, 02:24
auscyclefan94's Avatar
auscyclefan94 auscyclefan94 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,882
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaxland View Post
All the numbers in the world won't help Orica/Greenedge in Grand tours"Until they hire someone with decent GC credentials.Cam meyer may end up being a good week long stage racer but i can't see him doing any better than a top 20 GC result.Hope they prove me wrong?
My pick for TDU is N.Haas (Garmin)
Haas could do well. He climbed very well and was quite strong last year on the Wilunga stage and could finish highly in the finish to Stirling. With some decent form coming off nationals and Sun Tour, who knows what he could do?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggercuz View Post
second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 01-03-13, 02:37
Ferminal Ferminal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 16,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swuzzlebubble View Post
lol, that is pretty funny considering TDU stages are shorter than U23 races.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.