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  #21  
Old 08-04-09, 16:38
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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You are correct Zen- I should have stated that Pantani was a massive star before 98 - a superstar for the Giro and immortal for doing the double.

Clem is reasonably new to cycling in comparison to you and I and I think he fails to understand just how much sport means in the daily lives of normal Italians.

Some years ago i went on a tour of the San Siro stadium- the home of both A.C. Milan & Inter Milan. The tour guide was a young attractive Milanise lady and I asked her who she supported. She said she had no preference and she didnt follow soccer. I kept pressing her until a good while later she leaned in and barely whispered "Meeelan" (ie AC Milan).

In Italy no-one is neutral when it comes to sport.
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  #22  
Old 08-04-09, 17:10
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Some years ago i went on a tour of the San Siro stadium- the home of both A.C. Milan & Inter Milan.
Well probably you don't know but official name is the Stadio Giuseppe Meazza ( if you an Inter Milan fan ) or the San Siro ( the stadium is in the San Siro district ) if you an AC Milan fan because they don't want to use Inter's iconic player ( Giuseppe "Peppino" Meazza ) for the name of their stadium
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  #23  
Old 08-04-09, 17:11
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Marco was an exciting rider to watch with one of the most beautiful riding styles. Such a tragic end for a talented and loved rider.

RIP Marco
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  #24  
Old 08-04-09, 17:17
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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Well probably you don't know but official name is the Stadio Giuseppe Meazza ( if you an Inter Milan fan ) or the San Siro ( the stadium is in the San Siro district ) if you an AC Milan fan because they don't want to use Inter's iconic player ( Giuseppe "Peppino" Meazza ) for the name of their stadium
Ha - I found that out just before I did my first trip there!
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  #25  
Old 08-04-09, 17:25
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Marco was a genius, one and only Il Pirata, best climber ever... that's all
I am sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. Marco Pantani was a borderline paranoid schizophrenic and megalomaniac who addressed himself in the third person, and was renowned for his manic episodes. He more than likely never raced a single event in his professional career without the benefit of a "program", much less ever won anything through un-enhanced effort.

I met and spoke with him through an interpreter at the 2001 Giro. He was quite frankly a Whacko, and was tolerated by his peers with the classic mix of respect and disdain reserved for the brilliance of an idiot savant.

I have seen him climb Dolomite passes in the big chain ring. His achievements on the bike are a simple testament to what exceptional talent and a fully regimented program can attain. To hold him up as an example of athletic excellence is the ultimate double standard.
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  #26  
Old 08-04-09, 17:58
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too bad he couldn't get his voice on a 'program'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDyakMniSs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz_c_0ZhaoA
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  #27  
Old 08-04-09, 18:07
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Originally Posted by VeloFidelis View Post
I am sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. Marco Pantani was a borderline paranoid schizophrenic and megalomaniac who addressed himself in the third person, and was renowned for his manic episodes. He more than likely never raced a single event in his professional career without the benefit of a "program", much less ever won anything through un-enhanced effort.

I met and spoke with him through an interpreter at the 2001 Giro. He was quite frankly a Whacko, and was tolerated by his peers with the classic mix of respect and disdain reserved for the brilliance of an idiot savant.

I have seen him climb Dolomite passes in the big chain ring. His achievements on the bike are a simple testament to what exceptional talent and a fully regimented program can attain. To hold him up as an example of athletic excellence is the ultimate double standard.
IMHO you just don't understand, it's all about passion. Van Gogh was a lunatic, Beethoven was manic depressive, Mozart probably have had bipolar disorder etc and etc... And so what ?!
At the end is all about passion ! For me Lance Armstrong is just a guy who won 7 TdF and that's all... and Marco ?! Marco was something special

Il Pirata non c pi...

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  #28  
Old 08-04-09, 18:08
Eva Maria Eva Maria is offline
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Originally Posted by VeloFidelis View Post
I am sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. Marco Pantani was a borderline paranoid schizophrenic and megalomaniac who addressed himself in the third person, and was renowned for his manic episodes. He more than likely never raced a single event in his professional career without the benefit of a "program", much less ever won anything through un-enhanced effort.

I met and spoke with him through an interpreter at the 2001 Giro. He was quite frankly a Whacko, and was tolerated by his peers with the classic mix of respect and disdain reserved for the brilliance of an idiot savant.

I have seen him climb Dolomite passes in the big chain ring. His achievements on the bike are a simple testament to what exceptional talent and a fully regimented program can attain. To hold him up as an example of athletic excellence is the ultimate double standard.
As great as Marco was to watch I have to agree.

What I found so interesting about Matt's book "The Death of Marco Pantani" was not the story of his life but that it was quite clear he was completely nuts. Not just a little nuts, Fing crazy.

Here is one of the many cars he crashed

Last edited by Eva Maria; 08-04-09 at 18:11.
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  #29  
Old 08-04-09, 18:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Master View Post
IMHO you just don't understand, it's all about passion. Van Gogh was a lunatic, Beethoven was manic depressive, Mozart probably have had bipolar disorder etc and etc... And so what ?!
At the end is all about passion ! For me Lance Armstrong is just a guy who won 7 TdF and that's all... and Marco ?! Marco was something special

I appreciate your perspective on passion. After attending many Giro's d'Italia, and a Milan /San Remo or two, I am a somewhat acquainted with Italian cycling passion. I know it to be both strong and irrational, which is probably it's best definition.

I do not denigrate Pantani for his eccentricities, but for his false accomplishments. To compare his achievements to those of Van Gogh, Beethoven, or Mozart because they all shared a mental instability is pretty far off that mark. Their achievements stand as a testament to their talent in spite of their demons.

For Pantani, we will never know the level of his talent because it was obscured by his demons. Pantani was a troubled man whose downward spiral was fueled by the blind passion the tifosi threw at him, and his own confusion of self image about whether he deserved it or not.
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  #30  
Old 08-04-09, 19:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloFidelis View Post
I have seen him climb Dolomite passes in the big chain ring. His achievements on the bike are a simple testament to what exceptional talent and a fully regimented program can attain. To hold him up as an example of athletic excellence is the ultimate double standard.
I have always wondered, and maybe it's beyond anyone to tell for sure, but 'how talented' were some of these guys (ie also Basso, Ullrich), off the program?

In other words, could the top 10 of each GT in the 90s be a reflection of the top 10 greatest responders, and/or greatest risk takers? (This is not to say that they were mere pumped up amateurs, or 'donkeys', but there is a difference between a decent/good top 50 pro rider and an amazing top 10 pro rider)

I don't have a clue about his junior years, ie was he being dropped by others who were supposedly clean? I mean he has been riding his bike for a while, and some of his peers must have noticed some small transformations, if he wasn't already 'the greatest climber' in his youngster years...
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