Superhuman performance could betray sports drug cheats - Cyclingnews Forum

Go Back   Cyclingnews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-30-10, 17:29
TeamSkyFans
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Superhuman performance could betray sports drug cheats

New scientist article

more of the same really, but interesting that both the french government and wada are interested in the research.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-30-10, 17:44
Parrot23's Avatar
Parrot23 Parrot23 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamSkyFans View Post
New scientist article

more of the same really, but interesting that both the french government and wada are interested in the research.
Thanks for that.

I see it says:

"Pierre Sallet, a physiologist and athletics coach in Lyon, France, has studied this approach for WADA. When analysing one climb in the Tour, Sallet observed a rider who produced an average power in excess of 480 W for more than 30 minutes, a level which he considers "beyond all norms" and reason to investigate further."

I wonder who that was?

Also says,

"Prior to widespread EPO use, Tour winners' average power output was 380 watts on big climbs, with none exceeding 410 W, says Antoine Vayer, a professional cycling coach based in Pordic, France. Riis had an average power output of 445 W on Tour climbs in 1996. From 1994 onwards, Vayer calculated that around six riders per year averaged over 410 W."

Think Horner said in the recent Dauphine that he was maxxing out at about 400 on Alpe d'Huez. Sounds about right.

Jani Brak says he's found 40 watts in the last 2 weeks. Wonder what his levels are.

Last edited by Parrot23; 06-30-10 at 17:54.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-30-10, 17:55
TeamSkyFans
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I wonder how many of these findings have been shared with the french authorities
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-30-10, 17:59
oldschoolnik's Avatar
oldschoolnik oldschoolnik is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 320
Default

I wonder if these guys are speaking about 1 hour max efforts in the middle of the TDF and in the middle of a TDF stage? Because, it would seem that the hour record holders including pre-EPO-era Merckx were above 410W - and shoudln't they be quoting watt/kg? Seems kinda of unsophisticated to use raw power isntead of relative no? I mean Magnus Backsteadt probably did high 480 W's in the laughing group...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-30-10, 18:08
Cobblestones's Avatar
Cobblestones Cobblestones is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,037
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolnik View Post
I wonder if these guys are speaking about 1 hour max efforts in the middle of the TDF and in the middle of a TDF stage? Because, it would seem that the hour record holders including pre-EPO-era Merckx were above 410W - and shoudln't they be quoting watt/kg? Seems kinda of unsophisticated to use raw power isntead of relative no? I mean Magnus Backsteadt probably did high 480 W's in the laughing group...
Usually when watts are quoted, it's already standardized to a rider of something like 72 kg. So essentially it's W/kg.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-30-10, 18:40
acoggan acoggan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamSkyFans View Post
As an exercise physiologist, I find the thinking and logic exhibited in this article so full of holes as to be embarrassing.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-30-10, 20:23
131313's Avatar
131313 131313 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,094
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoggan View Post
As an exercise physiologist, I find the thinking and logic exhibited in this article so full of holes as to be embarrassing.
That's funny, because after reading it I was embarrassed for your field as well, and wondering why they didn't use John McCain-style air quotes around "Science".

That said, Ross Tucker generally seems on top of it (despite some fuzzy math/speculations on the Verbier thing, which he did amend with a little more detail), so I have to think that some things really got lost in the translation by the author.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-30-10, 20:53
workingclasshero's Avatar
workingclasshero workingclasshero is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolnik View Post
I wonder if these guys are speaking about 1 hour max efforts in the middle of the TDF and in the middle of a TDF stage? Because, it would seem that the hour record holders including pre-EPO-era Merckx were above 410W - and shoudln't they be quoting watt/kg? Seems kinda of unsophisticated to use raw power isntead of relative no? I mean Magnus Backsteadt probably did high 480 W's in the laughing group...
i quote ross from the article he's written himself on the blog

"A sustained (over 40 minutes) power output of greater than 6.2 W/kg at the end of a Tour stage is simply not physiologically believable, and is strongly suggestive of doping. In fact, anything above 6.0 W/kg is very, very suspect."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-30-10, 20:58
workingclasshero's Avatar
workingclasshero workingclasshero is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrot23 View Post
Jani Brak says he's found 40 watts in the last 2 weeks. Wonder what his levels are.
he must be dumb as fcuk. Does he not realise what he says? He told us he was peaking for the dauphine, then he only goes and finds another 40watts, which is a LOT from what i can understand.

that means he's added approx 10 % to his capacity in two weeks. When he was already peaking. That's got to be cutting edge training right there
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-30-10, 21:50
acoggan acoggan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
he must be dumb as fcuk. Does he not realise what he says? He told us he was peaking for the dauphine, then he only goes and finds another 40watts, which is a LOT from what i can understand.

that means he's added approx 10 % to his capacity in two weeks. When he was already peaking. That's got to be cutting edge training right there
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Maybe his coach is just really good at using certain tools for managing one's form.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.