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  #641  
Old 03-13-12, 08:15
Le breton Le breton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannavaro View Post
I think Rominger himself said during Paris - Nice 2001 that he had to ride further. Most likely for me is, that the finish from 1990 - 1995 was 2.5 km after the normal finish on the highest point of the road. Then I think in 2000 and 2001 it was the same start as in 1986-1989. We have this profil for that year.
ABOUT 2001 You show a profile that contradicts what you write

The profiles produced by A.S.O (and reproduced by cyclingnews), for what they are worth, show

in 2001 a flat section before the start of the climb
in 2012 no such flat section

Then, I would tend to give more weight to someone like Delestre who took the trouble to write a book than to what you may think

In the book
Anthologie de la Course au Soleil

G Delestre says that in the Col d'Eze TT the finish line was always located on the same spot.


He is talking about the time when Paris-Nice was "owned" by the Leulliot family, before it was sold to A.S.O.
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  #642  
Old 03-13-12, 09:45
Cannavaro Cannavaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le breton View Post
ABOUT 2001 You show a profile that contradicts what you write

The profiles produced by A.S.O (and reproduced by cyclingnews), for what they are worth, show

in 2001 a flat section before the start of the climb
in 2012 no such flat section

Then, I would tend to give more weight to someone like Delestre who took the trouble to write a book than to what you may think

In the book
Anthologie de la Course au Soleil

G Delestre says that in the Col d'Eze TT the finish line was always located on the same spot.


He is talking about the time when Paris-Nice was "owned" by the Leulliot family, before it was sold to A.S.O.
Sorry I couldn' find the right words. I meant that 1986-1989 and 2000/2001 had the same start and the same finish. Of course 2012 was without the flat section and i calculated the times right, which means -35 second for 1986-1989 and 2000/2001.
I only said that in my mind from 1990-1995 the finish was further up the hill. For me it is hard to beleave that Rominger cant remember the track he rode and won after 6 years. But it is of course possible.
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  #643  
Old 03-13-12, 13:26
halamala halamala is offline
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Originally Posted by jens_attacks View Post
il killer was 15 seconds faster than nibali on prati di tivo.well that didn't help... still that means without any doubt now the old di luca is back.
Danilo Di Luca

Prati di Tivo

Distance: 14.55 Km
Elevation: 1026 m
Grade: 7.05 %

Time: 38:28
VAM (m/h): 1600

Using Dr. Ferrari's formula:

1600 / 270.5 = 5.91 w/kg

---

Danilo Di Luca

Tirreno-Adriatico 2012, Stage 5, Prati di Tivo

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 1026 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 14.55 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 2308 = 38 min 28 sec = 38:28
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 61 kg [Wikipedia]
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 7.0 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 22.7 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 69.0 kg

Power : 383.8 Watt
Power / kg : 6.2 Watt / kg [383.8 Watt / 61 kg = 6.29 Watt / kg]

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]

Last edited by halamala; 03-13-12 at 13:35.
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  #644  
Old 03-13-12, 15:21
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jens_attacks jens_attacks is offline
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of course we can't know for sure.maybe acqua e sapone directeur was lying cassani .but i doubt that.the most important is that he looks in good shape and he's motivated.

i don't have much love for the approximated power outputs though.the speeds are ok to know but the power is more like a guess if you haven't his computer data and all of that
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  #645  
Old 03-13-12, 15:34
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Jens what are you doing in the clinic ?
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  #646  
Old 03-14-12, 10:37
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Originally Posted by Cannavaro View Post
I also tried to stop the time for the climb. They switched from the helicopter showing the main group to Egoi Martinez, when the first riders were breaking, i think for the corner at start of the climb. From this moment to the finish i stopped 39.03. So i think Nibali needed around 39.01. But i'm really unsure.
on RAI they showed the start of the climb,on the other tv
stations they didn't



exact time from that point:

Prati di Tivo
2012:14,6 km@7,1%---38:56---average speed 22.50 km/h(Vincenzo Nibali)

hitch the thread isn't exactly clinicish,i think it can be moved from here
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  #647  
Old 03-14-12, 14:51
Cannavaro Cannavaro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens_attacks View Post
on RAI they showed the start of the climb,on the other tv
stations they didn't



exact time from that point:

Prati di Tivo
2012:14,6 km@7,1%---38:56---average speed 22.50 km/h(Vincenzo Nibali)

hitch the thread isn't exactly clinicish,i think it can be moved from here
Thank you!
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  #648  
Old 03-14-12, 17:07
halamala halamala is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halamala View Post
Danilo Di Luca

Tirreno-Adriatico 2012, Stage 5, Prati di Tivo

Power : 383.8 Watt
Power / kg : 6.2 Watt / kg [383.8 Watt / 61 kg = 6.29 Watt / kg]

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]
The performance is the same as time 39:38 @ Alpe d'Huez.
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  #649  
Old 03-15-12, 17:49
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Red Rick Red Rick is offline
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The performance is the same as time 39:38 @ Alpe d'Huez.
They have two weeks of racing and a harder stage in the legs then
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  #650  
Old 03-19-12, 23:23
Le breton Le breton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens_attacks View Post
..........
i don't have much love for the approximated power outputs though.the speeds are ok to know but the power is more like a guess if you haven't his computer data and all of that
i don't have much love for the approximated power outputs though
On some climbs, like the Col d'Eze TT which is won at 30 km/h and where the aerodynamic component of the power is quite sizeable the results of calculations for different riders, even in watts/kg, have quite large uncertainties (even without mentioning the poorly known altitude gain)

However, when the aerodynamic component represent only a small fraction of the total power output, the calculations can be as good as SRM or Powertap measurements.

In the best cases the error on altitude difference (top minus bottom alt.) and time are totally negligible.

In a case where gravity and rolling resistance account for 90% of the power output (best racers on a 10-11% slope) the wind would have to be fairly strong to end up with a 3% overall uncertainty, in particular for a lone racer, as it would mean a 30% error on the aero component.
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