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Old 05-11-09, 12:52
gree0232 gree0232 is offline
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Default Have bike makers gone mad?

I have to admit that I am amazed at how quickly, almost absurdly quickly, that prices for bikes and components have gone through the roof of late. A case in point:

A 2009 Hyundai Accent lists (no discounts mind you) for $12,745.

A new Pinarello Prince, with Super Record group and set of Zipp 404 hoops in a package discout from a reputable dealer costs $11,420.61.

I hope you were not expecting a power meter with that?

So, hundreds of pounds of steel, with a roof, four wheels, with an engine provided to help you get up those hills (and who among us wouldn't like one of those from time to time as we slog up a hill?) now only costs about a grand more than a few pounds of titanium and carbon fiber?

I have no problem paying for premium quality, and even paying a great deal more for the obvious quality differences between a department store huffy and a real racer, but this has just gotten absurd. Engineering and raw material costs for bikes cannot be equal to that of cars (even small cars). There is an obvious disconnect here when a additional cog and the loss of a few grams now costs $3,000 dollars (For which, if you use Ebay, you can get a fully equipped, with old Dura Ace or Campy, full carbon bike).

I think SRAM has it right, as it has a high end gruppo with amazing quality, and a new Rival and Force group that are both high quality and reasonably affordable.

I was also happy to see Colnago drop the price on its excellent, to put it mildly, C50, and then flabbergasted to see them charging $6,500 for the new EPS. I realize the prices are set by what the market will pay, but the downside is that only fleeting few will be able to dabble in their fantasy by riding the same bike as their hero up the same mountains or along the same routes.

Undoutedly, this was not a problem in the Merckx era.
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Old 05-11-09, 13:02
Greg Johnson Greg Johnson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gree0232 View Post
A 2009 Hyundai Accent lists (no discounts mind you) for $12,745.

A new Pinarello Prince, with Super Record group and set of Zipp 404 hoops in a package discout from a reputable dealer costs $11,420.61.
One of them will get you from A to B and has a better saftey rating...oh poor Hyundai will never shake its stigma.

Cheers
Greg Johnson
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Old 05-11-09, 13:23
BroDeal BroDeal is offline
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The price has nothing to do with the engineering or the quality or the cost of the materials or the manufacturing. The biggest feature of expensive, top end bikes is the price. That is essentially what they are selling: The price. There is a certain segment of the market that's primary purchase criteria is a cost that will impress their riding buddies.

Hence you get insane paradoxes like a custom frame handmade in the U.S. by craftsmen making a living wage in America can cost less money than a mass produced frame made in China by people making a fraction of the U.S. minimum wage.

It is also the reason why costs have way outstripped inflation. Every manufacturer wants to price their product as high or higher than everyone elses, so there is a positive feedback loop. This seems to affect just most everything in cycling. The only thing I can think of that seems to be immune is tires.

Thank the yuppies. The same type of jerkoff who overpays relative to his income for a BMW to impress his neighbors will buy a bike on credit to impress his group ride bros.

Last edited by BroDeal; 05-11-09 at 16:31.
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Old 05-11-09, 16:23
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krebs303 krebs303 is offline
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guys who need a $12,000 bike get them for free.
yuppies=low performance drivers in high performance cars.

Last edited by krebs303; 05-11-09 at 16:26.
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Old 05-11-09, 16:47
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RDV4ROUBAIX RDV4ROUBAIX is offline
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Quote:
guys who need a $12,000 bike get them for free.
Yeah, but keep in mind that just ten years ago the average cost of owning a "pro" bike was around 2k. Granted these were steel and aluminum, but still attainable for the average rube. Back in '98 I bought a Colnago MasterXLight for $900 F&F, today that same rig is $2500. If you want to ride a carbon "pro" bike now, you either have to be in the correct tax bracket, or be extremely irresponsible with credit cards. Unfair pricing practices took over in the bike industry once carbon bikes and parts became more reliable, which was only about 5 years ago. Before then, at my former employer which is a huge part of the industry, handled more structural and catastrophic failures of carbon stuff than you would care to know. I didn't buy into carbon until a couple years ago, and picked up an unbranded Dedacciai Nero Corsa F&F for $1300. There are still deals to be had if you're not obsessed with brand names.
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Old 05-11-09, 17:39
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In 1999 my tri bike w/Hed 3 Wheels was $3400 USD . Frames ran $1200/1500. dura-ace $900. I have no interest in moving to carbon. My next bike will be a custom steel. I love the ride. I sure like the looks of the Pinnerello Prince. but for it would just be Bling. Some of my favorite bikes have been cobbled together from parts found in the trash. I can't drive by and not look. but I only take high class junk these days.
Prices now are amazing. I don't care for electric shifting and run mechanical discs on my MTB. Just easier to fix on the trail or road. Or I'm just getting old
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Old 05-11-09, 19:08
Ovidius Ovidius is offline
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I always find this sort of thing ridiculous. Are you somehow arguing that bike companies are making a ridiculous amount of profit? The way you are talking, you make it sound like Pinarello's margin on a Prince is 99.9%. I assure you, it is not.

Most Car Manufacturers are actually about to go bust, heh. But in normal times - there are hundreds of millions of car users worldwide. Their market is vast and diverse. There is the same amount of material in a Mclaren f1 than a ford Focus. Why does it cost more???

Its pretty obvious and I'm not going to explain it to you.

Why does a Pinarello Prince cost more? Have any of you tried to design and make a frame which you expect only to sell 5000 units max worldwide? Race Proven, top technology, top design, exceptional graphic design etcetcetc. The total cost of each Bike is massive, their Margin is reasonable and Pinarello make a reasonable and fair amount of profit for a small bike manufacturer.

It has Zipp Wheels? How many Zipp wheels are sold each year? But what about the design costs, wind tunnel costs, safety tests, manufacturing costs, material costs, marketing costs, mold costs... etcetc. Is Zipp the most profitable company in the Cycle industry... No. They make a reasonable amount of profit from a low volume, high quality, race proven, scientifically tested product. You don't get that from a Aksium.

The Bicycle world is innovative and technology moves fast. I think you would be hard pressed to find any other industry or sport for which technology has improved so substantially over the past 10 years. This innovation costs money and requires people to buy things at a premium. If it wasn't for people like me buying Carbon bikes in the past, would Dedeccia frames be available now??

Oh, and for all those people lost in the past. I do like my Steel MTB's. But no Steel Road bike compares to my 6kg Madone 6.9 pro in a 58cm. You cannot ultimately achieve the same ratio of stiffness to weight in any other material, whilst maintaining strenght and compliance where required. Anyone who things otherwise is really lost to nostalgia or misses the point because they cannot afford a $10k Road bike.
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Old 05-11-09, 19:34
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ElChingon ElChingon is offline
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Progress people, and economics. Who still makes in income what they did when bikes were $800? Nobody that's who.

Custom Steel! Now those prices are outrageous! Which frame builder? I'd like to see if it will be under $3K (Frame/fork only by the way).

Don't like electronics you say? Do you still use a distributor in your car as well , no you don't, its all electronic including the fuel pump these days unless you drive a retro car.

I'd love to keep it simple using only DC power, Old Electric School
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Old 05-11-09, 20:03
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krebs303 krebs303 is offline
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only said I like to repair my bike on the road don't like being stranded.
electronics are great technology is fine. I love all the new bikes but they not for me. and a steel frame can be modest in price depending on construction.
whether or not I can afford one is not how I judge what I like. I buy what best suits me and my riding. and that is not always the best and most expensive.
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Old 05-11-09, 20:13
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ElChingon ElChingon is offline
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You can buy a full carbon frame for $250! Cheaper than Steel! Check E-bay there's a few vendors selling them. Yes, from China, same place that makes the current cheap Steel frames as well (didn't say custom).
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