Tbh, it was pretty underwhelming this year with Colin Stüssi winning.They could do the Volta a Portugal just to take off the pressure of being the favourites
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
Tbh, it was pretty underwhelming this year with Colin Stüssi winning.They could do the Volta a Portugal just to take off the pressure of being the favourites
I remember now that before Jonas everyone talked about Slovenia as the doping "center" because it was Rog and Pog simultaneously. So maybe he knows enough. Funny he's bringing the coach with him. Weren't he one of those people who disagree on Wout GC GT potential? 🤔I'm saying Roglič was a top rider before Jumbo was a top team.
It doesn't mean anything in terms of clinical stuff, it just means Jumbo were not at the top of the food chain at a time when Rog's breakthrough as a top rider was happening.
So in response to people who assume Rog will lose a level outside Jumbo, I sincerely doubt it. Just as if he'd signed for Bahrain back in 2019 when they wanted him, I doubt he'd have been a lesser rider at that team. Don't get me wrong, i.e. Jumbo was good for Rog up until a point but those days are long gone. He's an afterthought there now & they really didn't know what to do with him this season beyond sending him to the Giro.
He'll be a hit at Bora. Just as Hindley was a hit for them after leaving DSM.
On "oil backed teams", it helps to check rather than make assumptions. Knowing team budgets is central to discussing the merits of the merger or Roglic leaving.
As the story states, some teams may have additional sources of funding or sponsorships that are not reflected in these budgets.
- Jumbo-Visma, Ineos and UAE's annual budgets are estimated to be in the vicinity of €50 million to €60 million. So being an oil backed team isn't so advantageous to UAE.
- Quickstep's budget is ~€25 million to €30 million
- Bora also has an annual budget of ~€25 million to €30 million
- For a benchmark comparison, Manchester United's budget was estimated to be €243m in 2022/23
Source:
What are the budgets of the WorldTour cycling teams in 2023? • ProCyclingUK.com
Teams rarely discuss their actual budget figures, although a recent trend has seen Richard Plugge of Jumbo-Visma claim that they are around 5th or 6th inprocyclinguk.com
So according to these figures, Jumbo are not "poverty stricken" and compare similarly to the other big two teams. Jumbo's budget ranking is consistent with their performances since 2020. According to the link the oil backed team of UAE only have an extra €5 million (10%) to play with which is line ball with the other oil backed team Ineos - poverty stricken? Quickstep are ranked 5th with ~€20 million less to spend than Jumbo-Visma.
February too UAE tour 🤭I bet they remember that they own a cycling team only around July.
Different climate or faster media? Jumbo success is 2 years old and Ineos was dominating for a longer time? I think Jumbo/Plugge hate is on its way.despite everything (Plugge both @ Jumbo and @ AIGCP, Jumbo winning EVERYTHING, Hessmann positive, Jumbo poaching Soudal) he's fùcking lucky he's Dutch in a Dutch team. if he were a Brit in a British team, the anger would be a hurricane, the old twitter/forum fighters would wake up after 3 years!
Different climate or faster media? Jumbo success is 2 years old and Ineos was dominating for a longer time? I think Jumbo/Plugge hate is on its way.
ps. I apologise, you know me, I'm a Sky fan/troll
Is competing in elite sport known to affect T levels one way or the other? I guess cycling and weight control could have negative effects.Dumoulin let the secret out to Jumbo's recent success. They all switched from training without carbs to training with carbs, then they started winning! Also says when he finished his career with Jumbo he had the testosterone level of a young girl which was surprising.
Tom Dumoulin: 'Nel finale della carriera avevo il livello di testosterone di una bambina'
Secondo l'ex campione olandese l'innalzamento delle prestazioni nel ciclismo attuale è dovuto all'alimentazioneit.blastingnews.com
Jumbo success started in 2020 - so we are well past three years now. I am surprised dislike of Jumbo isn’t more widespread by now. I dislike them every bit as much as I did Skyneos. This Plugge guy seems a bit like Dave Brailsford - has all the answers. I don’t like arrogant sportspeople or teams.Different climate or faster media? Jumbo success is 2 years old and Ineos was dominating for a longer time? I think Jumbo/Plugge hate is on its way.
yeah, he got his own TT bike for first ime in his lifeI believe Roglič and Jumbo were growing side by side. He became a top time trialist overnight after he had joined the team, so someone must have taught him something that year.
Would need someone to listen to the podcast the article is lifted from (in Dutch) to get what he was meaning / the context there. I think Dumo was suggesting all the training Jumbo had them doing without carbs and fat until a couple pf years ago was because it was thought to force the body to learn how to burn body fat instead of food so you kept light. But this training without carbs and fat has left him with depleted natural testosterone levels was my understanding and why he no longer could perform like he used to. Now Jumbo have switched to carb and fat loading in training the training is deeper and longer and so at the pointy end of the racing, they've been able to train for that effort. End of the day it makes sense, but not sure it really explains Jumbo's step up the last two seasons as Dumoulin believes.Is competing in elite sport known to affect T levels one way or the other? I guess cycling and weight control could have negative effects.
Yeah, more fatigue and overtraining leads to lower Test levels.Would need someone to listen to the podcast the article is lifted from (in Dutch) to get what he was meaning / the context there. I think Dumo was suggesting all the training Jumbo had them doing without carbs and fat until a couple pf years ago was because it was thought to force the body to learn how to burn body fat instead of food so you kept light. But this training without carbs and fat has left him with depleted natural testosterone levels was my understanding and why he no longer could perform like he used to. Now Jumbo have switched to carb and fat loading in training the training is deeper and longer and so at the pointy end of the racing, they've been able to train for that effort. End of the day it makes sense, but not sure it really explains Jumbo's step up the last two seasons as Dumoulin believes.
Dumoulin was on the podcast partially as ambassador of some food tracking app, so he was kind of selling his thing tbh. The part about fasted training to adapt the body to using fats is about an earlier time period, in the early part of his career. And he also says he didn't do those trainings most of the times.Would need someone to listen to the podcast the article is lifted from (in Dutch) to get what he was meaning / the context there. I think Dumo was suggesting all the training Jumbo had them doing without carbs and fat until a couple pf years ago was because it was thought to force the body to learn how to burn body fat instead of food so you kept light. But this training without carbs and fat has left him with depleted natural testosterone levels was my understanding and why he no longer could perform like he used to. Now Jumbo have switched to carb and fat loading in training the training is deeper and longer and so at the pointy end of the racing, they've been able to train for that effort. End of the day it makes sense, but not sure it really explains Jumbo's step up the last two seasons as Dumoulin believes.
Kuss takes GiroThis season everyone considers Jumbo the strongest team around, after they won the three Grand Tours but I am pretty convinced that next year, their will take a bit of a hit.
Without Roglič, they won't be able to win all three Grand Tours in the same season and their chances in some shorter stage races and even hilly classics like Lombardia, Liège and Flèche will become smaller as Roglič was their leader for these races.
Sure, if Vingegård wins the Tour which is the most likely outcome their season will always be partly a success but the cobbled classics team will need to step up because, despite having probably the best team for these races, in the last three seasons they've won 0 monuments, compared to Pogačar's 5 or MVDP's, so Van Aert and to a lesser extent Laporte, Van Baarle and Kooij will be under a lot of pressure because there won't be a GT triplet to mask their lack of results.
Insurance Policy that Others won't be abld to swim with da Fishy?Jumbo is finally getting down to the real serious marginal gains. They are employing a swim coach, Jacco Verhaeren. Straight from the Dave Brailsford playbook.
Swim coach Verhaeren dips toe into cycling world with Jumbo-Visma
Dominant Dutch cycling team Jumbo-Visma aim to stay at the front of the peloton next season with the help of an unlikely addition to their coaching set-up -- swimming guru Jacco Verhaeren.www.reuters.com
Verhaeren has not been directly implicated when it comes to doping (as far as I am aware), but he trained (and had a relationship with) Inge de Bruijn. Who is strongly suspected of foul play. This is from the Frankfurter Allgemeine, not the most sensationalist newspaper:
There was once a swimmer who was considered a super talent for years, but the coaches despaired of her. She let her talents lie dormant; she simply didn't make an international breakthrough. But one fine day, in the year of the Sydney Olympic Games, she suddenly became a dominant winner. She won gold medals and became a huge star. At the time, everyone was amazed at her late rise.
In her home country, the Netherlands, it was said that she had trained properly for the first time in her life and that she had finally reached her potential. Elsewhere, especially in Germany, her face and body were more likely to be associated with doping. They called her, a little maliciously, Ingo. There was never a positive doping test from Inge de Bruijn.
Kommentar: Verschwommener Verdacht
Es war eine Leistungsexplosion, darüber sind sich alle einig. Doch nach ihren grandiosen Erfolgen bei der Schwimm-EM wird auch Britta Steffen mit dem Dauerthema „Doping“ in Verbindung gebracht. Ein Kommentar von Gerd Schneider.m.faz.net
Yeah, but proving a legit contamination isn't easy, It pretty much has to be a legit one (See Rui Costa). German Nada also has a list with supplements that get tested by them, so you usually also have to Probe why you didn't stick with one of those supplements.The CN article was factually inaccurate
If Hessman can prove contamination, the sanction can be reduced to a WARNING, not 2 years. That rule was changed at the same time as the 4 year ban was implemented
Just curious, is it really possible that Michel Hessmann will get a four-year ban, now?Yeah, but proving a legit contamination isn't easy, It pretty much has to be a legit one (See Rui Costa). German Nada also has a list with supplements that get tested by them, so you usually also have to Probe why you didn't stick with one of those supplements.
He isn't gonna get an USADA Style slap on the wrist If He can't prove that It actually was a tainted Supplement.
A 2 year ban seems Like the Most likely Outcome to me, that's the Main reason to go the tainted supplements Route (If It didn't actually happen). An involuntary offence, leaving to a shorter 2 year ban.Just curious, is it really possible that Michel Hessmann will get a four-year ban, now?
From the past, I knew the rule that first-offenders get two-year sanctions, if no substances like, for example, EPO were used.
So my hope was that Hessmann would get a mild sanction, if any. But some mention he could get sanctioned for four years now.
Maybe you can help here, since I‘m obviously not up-to-date… Thanks in advance