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Moderators: Daniel Benson, Susan Westemeyer, Irondan

05 Feb 2013 22:16

aphronesis wrote:More of a structural problem you're having.


If you pay peanuts then you get monkeys.


jamiephillips wrote:Give Susan a break. Do you even have a job?


No and Yes.

Do you want to give Pat McQuaid a break despite him being woefully incompetent?
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
User avatar Mrs John Murphy
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05 Feb 2013 22:37

Mrs John Murphy wrote:If you pay peanuts then you get monkeys.




No and Yes.

Do you want to give Pat McQuaid a break despite him being woefully incompetent?


MJM, a wee bit of advice for you if you want to keep posting on here. And please don't take it tooo personally, but it is. If you keep up the direct or indirect attacks on Susan you will be very soon heading for a lengthy ban, if not sine die. Your call.
User avatar ferryman
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05 Feb 2013 23:07

Thou shalt not criticise the job CN staff do?

If you take a job with a public role then you surely have to accept criticism for the job you do.

As I said in response to Susan's characterisation that it was personal animosity, it isn't. My response to Susan's comment is and was that I merely think that she is not very good at her jobs. Nothing more and nothing less. Just like I think (and say that) Pat McQuaid, Phil Liggett, Dan Benson, Andrew Birotte and many other people are not very good at their jobs.
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
User avatar Mrs John Murphy
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05 Feb 2013 23:09

Sorry but you having a go at Susan in all these mod threads looks pretty much like a personal vendetta to me. Every time there is a chance you call her out.
El Pistolero wrote: Gratz to Cav.
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05 Feb 2013 23:23

Froome19 wrote:Sorry but you having a go at Susan in all these mod threads looks pretty much like a personal vendetta to me. Every time there is a chance you call her out.


If I call out or criticise Pat McQuaid do I have a personal vendetta against him as well? Do I have a personal vendetta against Armstrong having criticised him in all those threads about him? It's about the job they do not the person. By this reckoning my copy of this

Image must be full to overflowing.

And if someone does a bad job surely they should be called for it.

However, this is just going to go in circles and you and others are clearly not going to believe that it isn't personal so there isn't much more to add. (Till next time obviously ;))
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
User avatar Mrs John Murphy
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05 Feb 2013 23:57

Mrs John Murphy wrote:Thou shalt not criticise the job CN staff do?

If you take a job with a public role then you surely have to accept criticism for the job you do.

As I said in response to Susan's characterisation that it was personal animosity, it isn't. My response to Susan's comment is and was that I merely think that she is not very good at her jobs. Nothing more and nothing less. Just like I think (and say that) Pat McQuaid, Phil Liggett, Dan Benson, Andrew Birotte and many other people are not very good at their jobs.


Complete rubbish. I shouldn't have got in to this as I've a big day at work tomorrow. I've made the points please respect them, so you are at least on the same page so we can continue tomorrow (if you are still around):rolleyes:
User avatar ferryman
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06 Feb 2013 13:03

So what are you saying then?

Four things - firstly it is cycling defensive reaction 101 that whenever anyone criticises anyone to accuse the critic of having a personal motive for the criticism.

Secondly - I do think CN has handled and behaved appallingly over the Joe Papp affair and it has covered Armstrong and doping appallingly, and it continues to do so. I am not going to pretend that I think that CN does a good job when I clearly don't. It's not my country right or wrong. That would make me as bad as someone who knew that Armstrong was doping for years and chose to say nothing and jumped on the bandwagon instead. If saying CN staff are incompetent warrants a ban then that says more about CN and how it handles criticism than it does about fairness/unfairness of the criticism.

You seem to be seeing what you want to see in my posts. I explicitly pointed out that I don't think CN's management are any good at their jobs either. Neither the organ grinder, or his assistant are very good at their jobs at any level. Again, this is not about one individual.

Finally, I think that heavy-handed threat-laden moderation 'do this or I'll ban you' is a completely counter-productive way to moderate, and this I base on having moderated on a board with a similar number of active users for several years. Time and time again, when there was an issue, taking a hardline approach simply didn't work and was counter-productive in the short, medium and long term. We found that what did work was a more low-key approach - and only intervening if things got out of control - and to give you an example I was moderating that board on 9/11 and the following days when emotions were running very high, and we got through it without having to resort to threats, or shutting down threads or banning anyone, and without the board imploding, without posters leaving because of what was said. Moderating as a last resort not first choice.

Did I get criticised for my moderating? All the time. Was the criticism justified? Often yes. Did I hold my hands up when I ****ed up - yes I did. Did people think I was terrible at my job - yes. Did I think that the people who picked up on every decision I made were motivated by personal malice? Nope. It is part of the territory.

Criticism is central in learning from mistakes to get it right next time, even if you think your critic is motivated by a vendetta, they still have a point and you take it on board and try to evolve as a moderator to moderate better in future, or to write better as a writer, or whatever the job maybe.

You're saying 'don't criticise in the way your criticising or we'll ban you' so how would you prefer criticism (assuming we're allowed to criticise) to be expressed?
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
User avatar Mrs John Murphy
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06 Feb 2013 13:46

My two cents, fwiw.

I have had more dealings with Susan since day one than with any other member of the admin/mod staff. I have not always agreed with her, and I have seen her take actions that I (with my own pretty long and broad experience as both mod and admin,) might not have taken. Nevertheless, I have always found her to be approachable, straight, honest, and someone who is clearly doing her utmost to be as fair as possible in situations that are often impossible, and sometimes bordering on the downright insane. I have had public disagreements with others on the staff, so I'm certainly not someone who thinks that mods or admins should be above any criticism.

But, I use the word 'insane' advisedly, because quite frankly, in all my experience of forums going back to 1999, I have never come across so many thoroughly obnoxious posters/trolls/sockpuppets who think that they know every damn thing better, and who believe that only they have tapped into the well of universal wisdom, as I have here on CN.

You're one of those MJM, so I would seriously counsel some self-reflection on your part before you continue to direct your barbs at others.
#FeeltheBern
User avatar Amsterhammer
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06 Feb 2013 13:47

MJM,

You're well within your rights to have an opinion but if anything it's boiled over now. Take this thread for an example, Susan posts a note to say we have new mods and there are a number of positive posts that come. Then you jump in saying she can't do her job. Sure, that's an opinion, but it's a move so telegraphed and repetitive that it's essentially becoming bullying. If you don't like CN, that's fine, me, that's fine too, I'm just asking that you lay off the mods and Susan especially.

Daniel
Managing Editor Cyclingnews.com
User avatar Daniel Benson
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for the new mods

06 Feb 2013 13:58

hooking up to the forum i noticed daniel's post........i thought 'that's good
.......a word of thank's encouragement for the new mods'

but no he is wasting his time replying to a member trolling this thread

for sure i'm not the brightest spark in the fire but MJM.......................
if CN is so bad why are you so often posting?

why not create the 'perfect' cycling website
User avatar ebandit
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06 Feb 2013 14:20

ebandit wrote:hooking up to the forum i noticed daniel's post........i thought 'that's good
.......a word of thank's encouragement for the new mods'

but no he is wasting his time replying to a member trolling this thread

^^ this.
This thread went off topic beyond repair I'm afraid. MJM, if you wanna complain about how the website is run you have all the rights to do it by starting your own thread, and not by hijacking others'.

Thank to everyone (else) for greeting us.

As for this thread, I think it's time to close it.
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


Bronze Medal at the Great Grand Tour Game 2012

WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
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