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Moderator: Irondan

Re: Re:

27 Oct 2017 01:45

Irondan wrote:
MarkvW wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Brullnux wrote:Worst permaban ever.

Seriously, I get it was annoying but a permaban is massively excessive. I don't see any reason why it's justifiable (and I don't want the response to be 'we wanted him this would happen' because that just means the warning was excessive as well). Another ban (for a month or two) would've been enough imo.

This is not the "Members suspension appreciation/depreciation" thread (which is now closed). Please stick to the topic.

Thank you.


So, seemingly contrary to Red Rick's post when closing the Member's Suspension Appreciation/Depreciation thread, it is now forbidden to criticize the moderation of this forum.

This is a new thing, indeed.

Disparaging expletive omitted.

The only time I ever seem to notice when you comment is when you feign outrage over an issue in the moderator's thread. :rolleyes:

Nobody said it was forbidden to criticize moderation, that was completely made up.

However, complaining about bans just for the sake of complaining about bans is a thing of the past because people used that thread to troll each other so it was closed.

If you want to criticise mods then go for it.


Well, good!
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2017 11:32

Irondan wrote:
Brullnux wrote:I refer to MarkvW's post. But if there has truly been a change in policy - are we still allowed to comment on suspensions by moderators? I'm excited to know the answer.

The answer to that question is "no". This is not a thread to complain about bans, it's to complain about moderation.

So we can complain about moderation, but not the most significant acts of moderation?
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2017 12:15

Armchair cyclist wrote:
Irondan wrote:
Brullnux wrote:I refer to MarkvW's post. But if there has truly been a change in policy - are we still allowed to comment on suspensions by moderators? I'm excited to know the answer.

The answer to that question is "no". This is not a thread to complain about bans, it's to complain about moderation.

So we can complain about moderation, but not the most significant acts of moderation?

I'm puzzled by that comment too.
Bit of a contradiction or maybe we're overlooking something?
Brullnux was commenting on moderation, I don't see the problem.
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28 Oct 2017 12:44

I'm a member of another forum which doesn't allow any comments on moderation. While sometimes mildly frustrating, that forum works well. I don't mind if such comments aren't allowed, but this forum has had a long tradition of such transparency. It's certainly difficult as moderators to deal with, as much of the commentary is frankly a bit paranoid. Definitely more work, but maybe a strength of the forum. Maybe not, but I think such a change would be drastic, if such a word could apply to something like rule-setting on a forum.

I don't agree with a stance of not being able to comment on bans if comments on moderation are allowed. It is the most acute and visible action the mods take, and the most personal to the members. Such a stance seems inconsistent and confusing to me and I would request or hope it is reconsidered.
Last edited by red_flanders on 28 Oct 2017 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
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28 Oct 2017 12:45

Brullnux said the ban was “the worst” rather than asking about the moderation involved, then rethought and suggested that recent moderation seems severe.

The latter can be parsed. There’s a lot of paranoia and misinformation in. re. recent cafe activities.
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28 Oct 2017 13:33

I won't comment on members bans, as has been said we discuss this action as part of a team and every ban isn't taken lightly but once it's done, it's done.

I'm happy however to comment on other aspects of moderating on here. In regards to a topic in the cafe for example, we made it clear several weeks ago that we wanted to see a vast improvement in general behaviour in there. No more trolling, baiting, abuse and borderline bullying that I read on a daily basis. I believe it's a much more friendly place now so thank you to those that regularly contribute and have taken our advice on board.
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Re:

28 Oct 2017 16:36

Pricey_sky wrote:I won't comment on members bans, as has been said we discuss this action as part of a team and every ban isn't taken lightly but once it's done, it's done.

I'm happy however to comment on other aspects of moderating on here. In regards to a topic in the cafe for example, we made it clear several weeks ago that we wanted to see a vast improvement in general behaviour in there. No more trolling, baiting, abuse and borderline bullying that I read on a daily basis. I believe it's a much more friendly place now so thank you to those that regularly contribute and have taken our advice on board.


This is an interesting post.Maybe the same principles should start being applied in the Clinic too :rolleyes:
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28 Oct 2017 16:45

I'm just seriously confused by the whole situation that lead to (at least one of) those perma-bans, and not just because people were already warned about it.

If, as blutto suggested, it was simply a matter of having multiple songs you want to post, then why not simply post multiple links in the same post? Seems like a much easier way to do it...
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Re:

28 Oct 2017 17:06

RedheadDane wrote:I'm just seriously confused by the whole situation that lead to (at least one of) those perma-bans, and not just because people were already warned about it.

If, as blutto suggested, it was simply a matter of having multiple songs you want to post, then why not simply post multiple links in the same post? Seems like a much easier way to do it...

Because he was trying to increase his post count to hit 10,000 posts. It was that simple. That's my opinion that was shared by other staff members too but that's not what got him permabanned.

There was a warning posted by a Forum Administrator that's still in the thread to read for anyone that wants to. The warning stated that if "the such and such" behavior continued the person or persons will lose all forum posting privileges. Blutto continued in direct defiance of said warning and had his forum posting privileges removed.
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2017 17:12

DBotero wrote:
Pricey_sky wrote:I won't comment on members bans, as has been said we discuss this action as part of a team and every ban isn't taken lightly but once it's done, it's done.

I'm happy however to comment on other aspects of moderating on here. In regards to a topic in the cafe for example, we made it clear several weeks ago that we wanted to see a vast improvement in general behaviour in there. No more trolling, baiting, abuse and borderline bullying that I read on a daily basis. I believe it's a much more friendly place now so thank you to those that regularly contribute and have taken our advice on board.


This is an interesting post.Maybe the same principles should start being applied in the Clinic too :rolleyes:

We don't read every comment that's posted when it's posted and rely on forum members reporting bad behavior to help forum staff pinpoint comments that are in violation of forum posting guidelines.

I don't recall seeing any reports that you filed and don't know if you're just trying to flame this thread or have a specific incident to point out?
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2017 17:46

Irondan wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:I'm just seriously confused by the whole situation that lead to (at least one of) those perma-bans, and not just because people were already warned about it.

If, as blutto suggested, it was simply a matter of having multiple songs you want to post, then why not simply post multiple links in the same post? Seems like a much easier way to do it...

Because he was trying to increase his post count to hit 10,000 posts. It was that simple. That's my opinion that was shared by other staff members too but that's not what got him permabanned.

There was a warning posted by a Forum Administrator that's still in the thread to read for anyone that wants to. The warning stated that if "the such and such" behavior continued the person or persons will lose all forum posting privileges. Blutto continued in direct defiance of said warning and had his forum posting privileges removed.


So his "What if you've multiple songs you want to post links to? You're just reading this in a way that support your claims!" excuse really was just that.

What's so special about a high post-count anyway? Do we get cookies once our count reach a certain number?
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2017 18:09

RedheadDane wrote:
Irondan wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:I'm just seriously confused by the whole situation that lead to (at least one of) those perma-bans, and not just because people were already warned about it.

If, as blutto suggested, it was simply a matter of having multiple songs you want to post, then why not simply post multiple links in the same post? Seems like a much easier way to do it...

Because he was trying to increase his post count to hit 10,000 posts. It was that simple. That's my opinion that was shared by other staff members too but that's not what got him permabanned.

There was a warning posted by a Forum Administrator that's still in the thread to read for anyone that wants to. The warning stated that if "the such and such" behavior continued the person or persons will lose all forum posting privileges. Blutto continued in direct defiance of said warning and had his forum posting privileges removed.


So his "What if you've multiple songs you want to post links to? You're just reading this in a way that support your claims!" excuse really was just that.

What's so special about a high post-count anyway? Do we get cookies once our count reach a certain number?


It boils down to "posting with bad intent." Don't post with "bad intent."
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2017 18:22

Irondan wrote:
DBotero wrote:
Pricey_sky wrote:I won't comment on members bans, as has been said we discuss this action as part of a team and every ban isn't taken lightly but once it's done, it's done.

I'm happy however to comment on other aspects of moderating on here. In regards to a topic in the cafe for example, we made it clear several weeks ago that we wanted to see a vast improvement in general behaviour in there. No more trolling, baiting, abuse and borderline bullying that I read on a daily basis. I believe it's a much more friendly place now so thank you to those that regularly contribute and have taken our advice on board.


This is an interesting post.Maybe the same principles should start being applied in the Clinic too :rolleyes:

We don't read every comment that's posted when it's posted and rely on forum members reporting bad behavior to help forum staff pinpoint comments that are in violation of forum posting guidelines.

I don't recall seeing any reports that you filed and don't know if you're just trying to flame this thread or have a specific incident to point out?


Well,I don't like the flaming part so I won't continue this discussion.And yeah I confess:I'm guilty,I didn't reported anyone ever.
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28 Oct 2017 21:09

..i am going to be brief and non-specific (to avoid wasting everyone's time as opposed to entertaining the show seekers).

there was certainly a problem in the cafe with some posts and posters as well is there is a problem with OVER-moderating those. that's my opinion. overusing the hammer isn't conducive to neither the actual spirit of MODERATION (the english term implying the opposite of an extreme in any of its 4 definitions) nor to the quality of the forum content.

i will say more - and this is a hunch which may very well be off b/c i dont have all the private facts - it smell of vindictiveness.

thus i am out of here with the exception of the xc ski threads that imo are STILL the best repository of knowledge in the sport in any language i understand.
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Re:

28 Oct 2017 21:18

python wrote:..i am going to be brief and non-specific (to avoid wasting everyone's time as opposed to entertaining the show seekers).

there was certainly a problem in the cafe with some posts and posters as well is there is a problem with OVER-moderating those. that's my opinion. overusing the hammer isn't conducive to neither the actual spirit of MODERATION (the english term implying the opposite of an extreme in any of its 4 definitions) nor to the quality of the forum content.

i will say more - and this is a hunch which may very well be off b/c i dont have all the private facts - it smell of vindictiveness.

thus i am out of here with the exception of the xc ski threads that imo are STILL the best repository of knowledge in the sport in any language i understand.

When someone tells you that you're going to get a ticket for speeding but you still speed anyway and get a ticket, is that vindictiveness on the police's part? Or personal?

The decisions to ban these members was a staff decision, as with all bans. We discuss bans in a private forum with all the moderators and admins, especially long term or permabans. Considering the impersonal nature of the internet and its forums I'm not sure how it could get "personal" to be honest. Maybe I'm missing something.
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Re:

28 Oct 2017 21:24

python wrote:..i am going to be brief and non-specific (to avoid wasting everyone's time as opposed to entertaining the show seekers).

there was certainly a problem in the cafe with some posts and posters as well is there is a problem with OVER-moderating those. that's my opinion. overusing the hammer isn't conducive to neither the actual spirit of MODERATION (the english term implying the opposite of an extreme in any of its 4 definitions) nor to the quality of the forum content.

i will say more - and this is a hunch which may very well be off b/c i dont have all the private facts - it smell of vindictiveness.

thus i am out of here with the exception of the xc ski threads that imo are STILL the best repository of knowledge in the sport in any language i understand.


There was absolutely no vindictiveness on any poster that has used this forum so you are sadly mistaken. Users who have been permabanned were given adequate time and warning to change and abide by rules but they did not, so they are no longer here. This would be the same for any member of pretty much any forum I'd have thought.

P.S I also enjoy the XC ski threads.
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28 Oct 2017 21:31

as i said above, irondan, i was not specific to you or any mod. the entire org imo may have gotten off. the committee decisions on banning are just a part of the same trend. my observation. i have worked in the corporations where i reported to some above me as well as i had many reporting to me. i don't see your org approaching a right balance to a PROBLEM except of borderline brutishness. my last word here.
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Re:

28 Oct 2017 21:33

python wrote:as i said above, irondan, i was not specific to you or any mod. the entire org imo may have gotten off. the committee decisions on banning are just a part of the same trend. my observation. i have worked in the corporations where i reported to some above me as well as i had many reporting to me. i don't see your org approaching a right balance to a PROBLEM except of borderline brutishness. my last word here.

Fair enough python, thanks for your input.
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Re:

28 Oct 2017 22:32

python wrote:as i said above, irondan, i was not specific to you or any mod. the entire org imo may have gotten off. the committee decisions on banning are just a part of the same trend. my observation. i have worked in the corporations where i reported to some above me as well as i had many reporting to me. i don't see your org approaching a right balance to a PROBLEM except of borderline brutishness. my last word here.


I think it’s more complicated than that. As someone associated with the overall negative cast in the cafe, I was in the process of logging in to tell Scott that he was overreacting at the time that he got his first ban. As a cafe “friend” that seemed a reasonable alternative. People have done it with me in the past. But we’re not all online at any moment. Others might have done so with blutto; rather the opposite occurred. Overall it seemed to me that the mods asked for a change but instead received a unified and escalated backlash that played out across the board in stictly defensive terms with no real attempts at dialogue. My perception. Any “heavy handedness” is understandable from that perspective.

Especially when anyone else stayed silent. As is generally the case before the fact.
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Re: Re:

29 Oct 2017 10:47

Considering the impersonal nature of the internet and its forums I'm not sure how it could get "personal" to be honest. Maybe I'm missing something.


To me this illustrates one thing that characterizes the current crop of moderators: poor interpersonal skills and people management.
Of course it can get personal here.
If not, why are there even rules against attacking the poster.
Blutto was a friend of mine and of many others on here. Yes that's personal.
If he gets permabanned and you subsequently impede efforts to express solidarity and discomfort with the permaban, that's not clever.
Basically what Python says.
This whole "cease and desist or face a (perma)ban" attitude is kind of silly from a psychological/emotional perspective.
Ow, and the moderators' comments about bullying and baiting in the cafe, that's kind of hilarious seeing how certain posters are allowed to do just that on a daily basis despite it being reported.

All fwiw. (Not much I know)
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