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Moderator: Irondan

26 Nov 2016 20:31

I think the announcement could have something to do with a LeMond related article.

Regarding the announcement (and the deletion of links), I think a key part of the sentence is ", otherwise the comment runs the risk of deletion" ergo, it's not rigid that it will happen automatically, there's still room for some common sense/judgment from whatever moderator, who will have to deal with the upcoming untranslated links.
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Re:

26 Nov 2016 20:40

Netserk wrote:I think the announcement could have something to do with a LeMond related article.

Regarding the announcement (and the deletion of links), I think a key part of the sentence is ", otherwise the comment runs the risk of deletion" ergo, it's not rigid that it will happen automatically, there's still room for some common sense/judgment from whatever moderator, who will have to deal with the upcoming untranslated links.

Precisely.....
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Re:

27 Nov 2016 10:52

Brullnux wrote:The rule that all posts with links to foreign websites must have a complete translation else they'll be deleted is pretty ridiculous tbh. I understand this is an English language forum but not everyone has the time, or skill perhaps, to do a full and proper translation of a link they found interesting. If a link is posted in say, French or Flemish, then even if I can't understand it I don't get angry, I click on it and browse for some key words that I may be able to translate to gauge the sense of the article. Of course having a translation always makes it easier, but it is far too harsh to force it upon people. Even if the link is unintelligible to some people, others will find it very interesting, and by deleting posts that have these links you are ridding them of a useful and interesting article. Because, while this forum is an English language forum, it is a diverse and multi-cultural one too.


I have no real issues with links in a foregin language and have used some myself. but when we start getting bombarded with link after link with no translations and posters start implying things from those articles without giving tranlations, then it becomes an issue. It has as much to do with the poster as the link.
pmcg76
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27 Nov 2016 11:30

very well said brullnux. taking the words from my mouth.

@pcmg, it's telling this only became an issue for you when the discussion turned to lemond's possible doping, a topic to which you have contributed remarkably little other than clogging, moaning, insulting (randomly ordered).
Instead of stimulating discussion and thought process, you take every opportunity to kill it. Keep up the stellar work.
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Re: Re:

28 Nov 2016 21:07

pmcg76 wrote:
Brullnux wrote:The rule that all posts with links to foreign websites must have a complete translation else they'll be deleted is pretty ridiculous tbh. I understand this is an English language forum but not everyone has the time, or skill perhaps, to do a full and proper translation of a link they found interesting. If a link is posted in say, French or Flemish, then even if I can't understand it I don't get angry, I click on it and browse for some key words that I may be able to translate to gauge the sense of the article. Of course having a translation always makes it easier, but it is far too harsh to force it upon people. Even if the link is unintelligible to some people, others will find it very interesting, and by deleting posts that have these links you are ridding them of a useful and interesting article. Because, while this forum is an English language forum, it is a diverse and multi-cultural one too.


I have no real issues with links in a foregin language and have used some myself. but when we start getting bombarded with link after link with no translations and posters start implying things from those articles without giving tranlations, then it becomes an issue. It has as much to do with the poster as the link.


Posters could translate badly and lead to misinterpretation and we would not want that....Heck some might get the idea that the sport has clean riders.... :lol:
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Re:

28 Nov 2016 21:25

sniper wrote:very well said brullnux. taking the words from my mouth.

@pcmg, it's telling this only became an issue for you when the discussion turned to lemond's possible doping, a topic to which you have contributed remarkably little other than clogging, moaning, insulting (randomly ordered).
Instead of stimulating discussion and thought process, you take every opportunity to kill it. Keep up the stellar work.


It becomes an issue when people start putting 5/6 links in a post that are unreadable and a series of posts contain links with no translations.

Pointing out your nonsense is hardly clogging up threads, more like cleansing them of all the garbage. Remind me which one of us has been banned multiple times for trolling and then permabanned?
pmcg76
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28 Nov 2016 23:30

My 1 cent, it would be polite for those who post non English links/articles, to at least put a short translation, from the main parts, into English.
Google translation is far from accurate, sometimes causes even more confusion.
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Re:

29 Nov 2016 14:11

peloton wrote:My 1 cent, it would be polite for those who post non English links/articles, to at least put a short translation, from the main parts, into English.
Google translation is far from accurate, sometimes causes even more confusion.
Agreed.
But for the record, in the five or six years that i've posted here i've never ever seen any real problems in this regard. If the poster of the link doesn't provide a translation, and someone else wants one, this is usually peacefully and respectfully resolved between the posters, as it was in the case of John and Tienus.

The words *peacefully and respectfully* are crucial here though. You see, politeness is a two-way street. Or at least it should be.
pmcg76 wrote:...
100% Agreed, I was starting to get tired of all these links that were appearing in Dutch or Flemish with no translations but claims being made from certain excerpts that were selectively quoted. I think it is starting to become a bit too obvious.
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Re: Re:

29 Nov 2016 18:08

sniper wrote:
peloton wrote:My 1 cent, it would be polite for those who post non English links/articles, to at least put a short translation, from the main parts, into English.
Google translation is far from accurate, sometimes causes even more confusion.
Agreed.
But for the record, in the five or six years that i've posted here i've never ever seen any real problems in this regard. If the poster of the link doesn't provide a translation, and someone else wants one, this is usually peacefully and respectfully resolved between the posters, as it was in the case of John and Tienus.

The words *peacefully and respectfully* are crucial here though. You see, politeness is a two-way street. Or at least it should be.
pmcg76 wrote:...
100% Agreed, I was starting to get tired of all these links that were appearing in Dutch or Flemish with no translations but claims being made from certain excerpts that were selectively quoted. I think it is starting to become a bit too obvious.

Agree with both of you
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Re: Moderators

29 Nov 2016 23:29

Well said sniper, totally agree
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Re: Re:

30 Nov 2016 10:09

sniper wrote:
peloton wrote:My 1 cent, it would be polite for those who post non English links/articles, to at least put a short translation, from the main parts, into English.
Google translation is far from accurate, sometimes causes even more confusion.
Agreed.
But for the record, in the five or six years that i've posted here i've never ever seen any real problems in this regard. If the poster of the link doesn't provide a translation, and someone else wants one, this is usually peacefully and respectfully resolved between the posters, as it was in the case of John and Tienus.

The words *peacefully and respectfully* are crucial here though. You see, politeness is a two-way street. Or at least it should be.
pmcg76 wrote:...
100% Agreed, I was starting to get tired of all these links that were appearing in Dutch or Flemish with no translations but claims being made from certain excerpts that were selectively quoted. I think it is starting to become a bit too obvious.


More BS from sniper.

Several links were posted in Dutch with no translations but posters suggesting they said certain things. Then Tienus posted another link in Dutch of which he extracted "Noel Dejockherre introduced LeMond to Paul Nijs" and "Nijs said riders came to him for doping products". The implication is clear.

It was Scienceiscool who called that out when he tried to translate the same article and found one of the first lines was Nijs saying that LeMond did not take doping products. He then asked for full translations as it was clear posters were selectively quoting articles to imply certain things.

I agreed as certain posters have a history of misrepresenting articles(even in English) to fit their particular agenda.

Now we have sniper potraying me as if I was being extremely rude when I was merely agreeing with another poster. If you dont want to be called out, dont misrepresent articles. Simple really.
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30 Nov 2016 11:02

If someone posted:

" XYZ is a doper" in English and continued to explain why in Croatian then people would complain and expect a translation.

I don't see why it is any different just because someone links to the foreign language evidence rather than types it out. It seems extremely reasonable that if you want to use foreign language sources you should provide a translation.
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Re:

30 Nov 2016 13:35

Just adding my two-cent to the whole language-debate:

Brullnux wrote:The rule that all posts with links to foreign websites must have a complete translation else they'll be deleted is pretty ridiculous tbh. I understand this is an English language forum but not everyone has the time, or skill perhaps, to do a full and proper translation of a link they found interesting. If a link is posted in say, French or Flemish, then even if I can't understand it I don't get angry, I click on it and browse for some key words that I may be able to translate to gauge the sense of the article. Of course having a translation always makes it easier, but it is far too harsh to force it upon people. Even if the link is unintelligible to some people, others will find it very interesting, and by deleting posts that have these links you are ridding them of a useful and interesting article. Because, while this forum is an English language forum, it is a diverse and multi-cultural one too.


Which is exactly why we should take care to translate foreign-language links. Because if I start frequently post links to Danish sites, and others to sites in whatever languages they speak, then it won't become more diverse, it'll simply get split into a bunch of language-based "subgroups".
One of the main parts of a multi-cultural forum is a common language, English is that common language.
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Re: Re:

30 Nov 2016 16:07

RedheadDane wrote:Just adding my two-cent to the whole language-debate:

Brullnux wrote:The rule that all posts with links to foreign websites must have a complete translation else they'll be deleted is pretty ridiculous tbh. I understand this is an English language forum but not everyone has the time, or skill perhaps, to do a full and proper translation of a link they found interesting. If a link is posted in say, French or Flemish, then even if I can't understand it I don't get angry, I click on it and browse for some key words that I may be able to translate to gauge the sense of the article. Of course having a translation always makes it easier, but it is far too harsh to force it upon people. Even if the link is unintelligible to some people, others will find it very interesting, and by deleting posts that have these links you are ridding them of a useful and interesting article. Because, while this forum is an English language forum, it is a diverse and multi-cultural one too.


Which is exactly why we should take care to translate foreign-language links. Because if I start frequently post links to Danish sites, and others to sites in whatever languages they speak, then it won't become more diverse, it'll simply get split into a bunch of language-based "subgroups".
One of the main parts of a multi-cultural forum is a common language, English is that common language.


I fully agree. Anybody that still needs ti be versed in the story on the Tower of Babel and subsequent Babylonian confusion. I am sure I can rustle up an English or Dutch version of that story. :D
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Re:

30 Nov 2016 20:59

King Boonen wrote:If someone posted:

" XYZ is a doper" in English and continued to explain why in Croatian then people would complain and expect a translation.

I don't see why it is any different just because someone links to the foreign language evidence rather than types it out. It seems extremely reasonable that if you want to use foreign language sources you should provide a translation.

I agree, but deleting a post, or even threatening deletion, because it isn't there is a bit excessive. As sniper said, these problems are resolved pretty easily usually.
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30 Nov 2016 21:33

You need to think about this differently. Look at it not as a requirement to post a translation, but rather as a warning not to take things from an article the article doesn't actually say. If you do, there is a bigger chance of punishment than if you do that with an English article, cause then it would be easy to spot for everyone.
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Re: Re:

01 Dec 2016 11:51

Brullnux wrote:
King Boonen wrote:If someone posted:

" XYZ is a doper" in English and continued to explain why in Croatian then people would complain and expect a translation.

I don't see why it is any different just because someone links to the foreign language evidence rather than types it out. It seems extremely reasonable that if you want to use foreign language sources you should provide a translation.

I agree, but deleting a post, or even threatening deletion, because it isn't there is a bit excessive. As sniper said, these problems are resolved pretty easily usually.


I guess so but that relies on people catching it, asking for the translation, it being full and correct and no-one using it as described above. It's easy to see the problems the mods have, if someone links a Dutch article, claims it says something when it doesn't, says they can't provide a full translation etc. it becomes incumbent on the mods to try and wade into it and sort it out which would take loads of time. If the post remains, the lie remains and get perpetuated. I'm assuming the threat of deleting posts is just there so if it does have to be deleted the mods can do it without having to go to the trouble of constantly explaining why and having the same argument. I'm also guessing the poster would be given a chance to give a translation if necessary as there is no ban on foreign language articles.
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Re: Re:

01 Dec 2016 13:04

King Boonen wrote:
Brullnux wrote:
King Boonen wrote:If someone posted:

" XYZ is a doper" in English and continued to explain why in Croatian then people would complain and expect a translation.

I don't see why it is any different just because someone links to the foreign language evidence rather than types it out. It seems extremely reasonable that if you want to use foreign language sources you should provide a translation.

I agree, but deleting a post, or even threatening deletion, because it isn't there is a bit excessive. As sniper said, these problems are resolved pretty easily usually.


I guess so but that relies on people catching it, asking for the translation, it being full and correct and no-one using it as described above. It's easy to see the problems the mods have, if someone links a Dutch article, claims it says something when it doesn't, says they can't provide a full translation etc. it becomes incumbent on the mods to try and wade into it and sort it out which would take loads of time. If the post remains, the lie remains and get perpetuated. I'm assuming the threat of deleting posts is just there so if it does have to be deleted the mods can do it without having to go to the trouble of constantly explaining why and having the same argument. I'm also guessing the poster would be given a chance to give a translation if necessary as there is no ban on foreign language articles.

Bingo!
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01 Dec 2016 13:06

Ihay amhay ursprisedhay atthay isthay attermayed isthay uchmay.
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Re:

01 Dec 2016 13:19

Jspear wrote:Ihay amhay ursprisedhay atthay isthay attermayed isthay uchmay.

Angbay onhay :D
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