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14 Jun 2010 03:58

Reading just this thread - let alone the rest of the forum its abundantly clear that there are some utterly conflicting opinions about how the site should be moderated. I would just hope that everyone could try to appreciate how difficult it actually is to apply a "moderate" view when determining what to do with posters and individual posts.

For instance, this thread resulted in several reports over the weekend. When I came here late last night I found some pretty poor behaviour by more than one person. However, the conversation is directly criticising the moderators.

So as a Mod, do I:
1) Carry out the wishes of those that reported it (as I normally would given the nature of the posts)?

OR

2) Leave them in place because as a moderator I have to recognise the conflict of interest in deleting a post that criticises a moderator - and as a consequence therefore I have to leave another moderator their right to reply (but at the same time disappoint those that complained and frankly leave the forum in a poorer state overall)?

What I am trying to say is that moderators face these challenges in just about every situation with the exception of outright spamming or swearing. In all other cases there is more than one point of view and the difficulty is finding the mid-point. Beyond direct rules such as swearing however, the "mid-point" is a subjective and personal thing that cannot easily be set for all moderators.

In other words, different moderators WILL react in different ways to any given post. Expecting impersonal uniform behaviour by all moderators is actually asking for the kind of dictatorial state that some of you are at the same time complaining already exists?...
User avatar Martin318is
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14 Jun 2010 07:36

People should realize that off topic posting isn't as problematic as some make it out to be. Off-topic posts aren't really, or for that matter, shouldn't be a black or white issue in which no person should trespass. To expect a thread to act nothing like a conversation, in which the occasional digression for an example that may be loosely related to the topic is warranted at times, would be much too stifling.

I suppose part of determining which off-topic posts are kosher lies somewhere between the intention of the post, knowing the intention of the poster for doing so, and also knowing a little bit about the poster's history.

Also, the nature of each thread in a way determines the limits/degree of how much off topic people can stray. Race day threads should be pretty narrowly confined. I've never reported anyone, but the closest I've come to doing so was on a few occasions during the Giro race day threads where a small group of posters persisted in doing so despite being asked to refrain from continuing on their off-topic rambling. Clinic based threads I think allow a bit more leeway for off topic speculation because doping isn't done in isolation, in much the same way people don't learn language on their own, they learn it from others who have already done so, so speculate away.

I think if people expect a hard rule on what and when off-topic posts are forbidden they will wait a long time because it will never arrive. A little application of common sense suggests that the nature of a thread and where that thread is located should determine its limits and how flexible it is, not a strict 'no off-topic' posting rule.

That's my two cents. Apologies for the lack of brevity, if you know, that's your thing.
trompe le monde
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14 Jun 2010 11:19

Martin318is wrote:Reading just this thread - let alone the rest of the forum its abundantly clear that there are some utterly conflicting opinions about how the site should be moderated. I would just hope that everyone could try to appreciate how difficult it actually is to apply a "moderate" view when determining what to do with posters and individual posts.

For instance, this thread resulted in several reports over the weekend. When I came here late last night I found some pretty poor behaviour by more than one person. However, the conversation is directly criticising the moderators.

So as a Mod, do I:
1) Carry out the wishes of those that reported it (as I normally would given the nature of the posts)?

OR

2) Leave them in place because as a moderator I have to recognise the conflict of interest in deleting a post that criticises a moderator - and as a consequence therefore I have to leave another moderator their right to reply (but at the same time disappoint those that complained and frankly leave the forum in a poorer state overall)?

What I am trying to say is that moderators face these challenges in just about every situation with the exception of outright spamming or swearing. In all other cases there is more than one point of view and the difficulty is finding the mid-point. Beyond direct rules such as swearing however, the "mid-point" is a subjective and personal thing that cannot easily be set for all moderators.

In other words, different moderators WILL react in different ways to any given post. Expecting impersonal uniform behaviour by all moderators is actually asking for the kind of dictatorial state that some of you are at the same time complaining already exists?...


An idea would be to set some guidlines and rules which must be followed. Then set certain punishments for those who don't follow those rules to fit the crime. At least that will eliminate some sort of inconsistencies, set boundaries and keep this fourm board in a better state than it is.

I understand I have some blame in the way this place has come to be.
diggercuz wrote:second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
User avatar auscyclefan94
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15 Jun 2010 01:43

A lot of that is in fact in place and is being expanded as we speak. But how can you apply a rule around the example I gave regarding this thread?

The point is that at some stage as a moderator you are going to hit situations that cannot be resolved by applying rule D or whatever. As an example, as Tromp le Monde highlights - the question of Off topic posting is possibly the trickiest. Deciding where a post has stepped off the reservation is often difficult.

They are not always as easy to judge as someone posting about Lance in the Babes on Bikes thread....
User avatar Martin318is
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15 Jun 2010 03:00

Martin318is wrote:A lot of that is in fact in place and is being expanded as we speak. But how can you apply a rule around the example I gave regarding this thread?

The point is that at some stage as a moderator you are going to hit situations that cannot be resolved by applying rule D or whatever. As an example, as Tromp le Monde highlights - the question of Off topic posting is possibly the trickiest. Deciding where a post has stepped off the reservation is often difficult.

They are not always as easy to judge as someone posting about Lance in the Babes on Bikes thread....


Yes you can. Name any situation.
diggercuz wrote:second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
User avatar auscyclefan94
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15 Jun 2010 05:26

auscyclefan94 wrote:Yes you can. Name any situation.


Oh? How about this thread?

I still find it funny that you are calling for more consistent standards when you yourself fail to even abide by the rules and even admit to flaunting them as a form of misguided protest. Someone crosses the line in that thread and you even stand up for the individual by accusing someone else of being too precious for trying to uphold the standards of the forum.

If you're not even willing to regulate yourself ACF, what hope is there in you asking for better forum moderation? Do you honestly need better standards placed upon you like some kind of straight jacket before you start toeing the norms of what is acceptable on the forum?

This appeal of yours is done completely out of selfish reasons rather then for the good of the forum itself. If you want a pro-Evans soap box where everyone will agree with you, start your own forum.
trompe le monde
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15 Jun 2010 05:36

auscyclefan94 wrote:Yes you can. Name any situation.


I have done so. Twice.
User avatar Martin318is
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15 Jun 2010 05:43

trompe le monde wrote:This appeal of yours is done completely out of selfish reasons rather then for the good of the forum itself. If you want a pro-Evans soap box where everyone will agree with you, start your own forum.


This could be the birth of TeamBMCFans. I wonder if ACF has any web skillz.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
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15 Jun 2010 06:29

off topic posting is like trolls, its not the posting thats the problem. 9 times out of 10 its peoples reaction to it. If you ignore off topic posting, it goes away, if you bite, thats when the "fun" starts.

Although some of the f1 spoilers in race threads the other week were worth killing people over

off topic posting depends on the situation. In a "lance thread", or "is andy shleck good" thread, then the thread should be kept on topic. On things like race stage threads where people are watching the stage live, there is bound to be a bit of diversion over the course of the day. I liken it to watching the race on tv with your mates, you are going to get distracted at times, or the riders may go over a certain climb and you may remember that climb a couple of years ago, conversation gets sidetracked, but as soon as something interesting happens in the race the conversation soon gets back on track.

So in threads with specific titles.. keep on topic. But on race threads where people are following it live I see no reason why things cant go off track a bit as long as everyone is polite.
TeamSkyFans
 

15 Jun 2010 06:33

BroDeal wrote:This could be the birth of TeamBMCFans. I wonder if ACF has any web skillz.


He'd have to buy new domains fairly regularly when evans discovers bmc is the wrong team to be on.

Image
please acf take that in the humour it was intended
TeamSkyFans
 

15 Jun 2010 06:47

TeamSkyFans wrote:He'd have to buy new domains fairly regularly when evans discovers bmc is the wrong team to be on.

please acf take that in the humour it was intended


Just like he always does.:p
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings."

Gods don't kill people, people with Gods kill people.
User avatar Hugh Januss
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15 Jun 2010 07:02

trompe le monde wrote:Oh? How about this thread?

I still find it funny that you are calling for more consistent standards when you yourself fail to even abide by the rules and even admit to flaunting them as a form of misguided protest. Someone crosses the line in that thread and you even stand up for the individual by accusing someone else of being too precious for trying to uphold the standards of the forum.

If you're not even willing to regulate yourself ACF, what hope is there in you asking for better forum moderation? Do you honestly need better standards placed upon you like some kind of straight jacket before you start toeing the norms of what is acceptable on the forum?

This appeal of yours is done completely out of selfish reasons rather then for the good of the forum itself. If you want a pro-Evans soap box where everyone will agree with you, start your own forum.


I still find it funny that you will continually point the finger at me when there are many other examples. If you red my prior posts I agreed that sometimes I act like an idiot when it comes to Cadel racing and winning. That night of that thread was not as bad as others were praising to a bit of a lower level of evans.
diggercuz wrote:second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
User avatar auscyclefan94
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15 Jun 2010 07:04

TeamSkyFans wrote:He'd have to buy new domains fairly regularly when evans discovers bmc is the wrong team to be on.

Image
please acf take that in the humour it was intended


Just like bro and others comments in the Wigans thread!;)
I have little to no web skills like you!

[SIZE="7"][color="White"]TOUCHE![/color][/SIZE]
diggercuz wrote:second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
User avatar auscyclefan94
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15 Jun 2010 07:09

auscyclefan94 wrote:Just like bro and others comments in the Wigans thread!;)
I have little to no web skills like you!

[SIZE="7"][color="White"]TOUCHE![/color][/SIZE]


fine.. i was going to buy it for you for your birthday
TeamSkyFans
 

15 Jun 2010 07:11

auscyclefan94 wrote:I still find it funny that you will continually point the finger at me when there are many other examples. If you red my prior posts I agreed that sometimes I act like an idiot when it comes to Cadel racing and winning. That night of that thread was not as bad as others were praising to a bit of a lower level of evans.


No, you're skirting the issue entirely. I quoted that thread because you defended someone who contravened forum rules and not because of your Evans appreciation.

And yes, there are other offenders as well but none of them have bothered to make a thread complaining about moderators. You have, hence the target.
trompe le monde
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15 Jun 2010 07:15

auscyclefan94 wrote:Just like bro and others comments in the Wigans thread!;)
I have little to no web skills like you!

[SIZE="7"][color="White"]TOUCHE![/color][/SIZE]


Image
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings."

Gods don't kill people, people with Gods kill people.
User avatar Hugh Januss
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15 Jun 2010 07:18

not being funny, but can everyone stop dragging this thread off topic. its meant to be about moderators
TeamSkyFans
 

15 Jun 2010 07:20

trompe le monde wrote:No, you're skirting the issue entirely. I quoted that thread because you defended someone who contravened forum rules and not because of your Evans appreciation.

And yes, there are other offenders as well but none of them have bothered to make a thread complaining about moderators. You have, hence the target.


well, then criticise me because of the thread rather than the things I do. That makes you the hipocrit.
diggercuz wrote:second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
User avatar auscyclefan94
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15 Jun 2010 07:22

TeamSkyFans wrote:fine.. i was going to buy it for you for your birthday


it was in april!:D I guess you are still a bit sensitive over the wigans thread.
diggercuz wrote:second post ever after reading the forum for the last few years and one thing i must say, ACF94 is probably the most intelligent poster here, never biased to BMC or Cadel, and never gets worked up over anything.
User avatar auscyclefan94
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15 Jun 2010 07:32

auscyclefan94 wrote:it was in april!:D I guess you are still a bit sensitive over the wigans thread.


i thought it was in february :P
TeamSkyFans
 

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