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Wiggins - Hour Record

From the kilo to the hour record, if it's on the velodrome it goes in here

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Informative and interesting Website about the hour record

08 Jul 2011 10:22

Gearing, split times, cadence, bike weight, etc..........

http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/hourrec.htm

Be great to see a future attempt at the hour record by Wiggins.....
Kaizersoze
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09 Jul 2011 22:31

Kaizersoze wrote:Gearing, split times, cadence, bike weight, etc..........

http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/hourrec.htm

Be great to see a future attempt at the hour record by Wiggins.....


Wigans, no chance

he will win EPL Premiership b4 60min
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10 Jul 2011 06:58

Kaizersoze wrote:Gearing, split times, cadence, bike weight, etc..........

http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/hourrec.htm


i recall reading that ekimov held 1hr record before moser…a quick google check puts his at 49.672 meters

that’s only few m below sosenka’s and more that 200 m over boardman’s uci record.

anyone got a clue as to why eki’s record does not figure in the books ? it was indoors and so was sosenka’s…
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10 Jul 2011 08:52

python wrote:i recall reading that ekimov held 1hr record before moser…a quick google check puts his at 49.672 meters

that’s only few m below sosenka’s and more that 200 m over boardman’s uci record.

anyone got a clue as to why eki’s record does not figure in the books ? it was indoors and so was sosenka’s…


Not sure, but hour records have to be conducted under UCI supervision, full doping control etc.

There is a process to follow in terms of providing notice for an attempt (you need to apply several months in advance, name the date, time and location of attempt), organise and pay for officials, have approved timing system (yes, it's needed although the manual backup of three hand time keepers can be used), use an approved track that has been certified etc (I coach a rider who's set a masters category hour record).

Sometimes I think the paperwork is harder than the ride!

There are riders who have ridden further than given records, but not done with all the relevant requirements, and so are not recorded as an official record.
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Hour Attempt

11 Jul 2011 20:06

Fabian wants to attempt the hour. The problem is timing. He peaks for the spring classics and the Tour. He is obviously stuffed after these main events, esp. the tour. Could he train specifically and try an attempt in the fall or maybe late April? Possibly. Would it hurt his team? Sure, to an extent. Also, attempts are a lot more expensive than one would think.

Wiggins? I think his time is past. By getting into road races, he's trimmed down for the mountains and has less speed. Sure, he is still fast. I'm sure he knows that Fabian is much faster. So, why try?

Bobridge? Great, great 4km man. Hoy is even faster for 1 km. Could either of them do an hour? No. Not every track cyclist can ride endurance distances.

I agree with the thoughts about Sosenska.

As to the reason for the Eddy record and divisions of record hour. First, there is the issue of testing. Many past riders have admitted to some extent of blood doping, steroids, and epo. Most people believe Eddy and Boardman raced clean during their whole career. The bike issue is greater. Companies do not invest lots of money into a bike that is not legal or sellable. This means there will not be any bike available that is as fast as Obree's or Boardman's Lotus. The positions are banned now as well.

As to Ekimov. It was an amateur record only. Ekimov's record is considered an aero bike, so it is not listed with the old record style. Ekimov says he did not knowingly take drugs. However, the Soviet Union had vitamin injections that Ekimov now believes contained illegal substances.

All records can be suspect, as amphetamines were widely used before Eddy's time. It is a cloud that clean riders must live under.

I believe Fabian can crack the 50 at sea level on the old bike, the only record worth attempting.
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11 Jul 2011 21:52

TShame wrote:This means there will not be any bike available that is as fast as Obree's or Boardman's Lotus. The positions are banned now as well.

The world 4km pursuit record was set using the current bike and position rules.
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12 Jul 2011 02:43

Boardman rode 51 kilometers, then rode a 4:09 pursuit.
His average was 4:15.
His record pursuit had a dangerously slow start (first 1/2 kilo),
followed by an average 60 kph.

Kudos to Bobridge.
My point is still valid, Bobridge would have gone faster if he was on a Lotus.

Don't confuse a 4 km pursuit with the hour record.
I have done both and there is no comparison.
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12 Jul 2011 02:47

Last 3 k was 3.02.2
TShame
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12 Jul 2011 04:16

TShame wrote:Don't confuse a 4 km pursuit with the hour record.
I have done both and there is no comparison.

I'm not, just saying that the current position/bike regulations have not prevented a world record being beaten.

I am pretty familiar with the demands of each event. I have coached a successful world hour record and ridden plenty of pursuits myself, including a silver medal at Aussie Nationals and state record at Team Pursuit.

There is one thing that both events share, and that's the rider with highest power to aero drag ratio goes the fastest.

Obviously the power in the pursuit is higher and the physiological requirement means that anaerobic work capacity meets about 25-30% of the energy demand in a 4km pursuit (versus ~1-2% in an hour effort) with the vast majority of the balance being aerobic energy production.

The "Superman" position is not always faster for all riders.
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12 Jul 2011 04:21

TShame wrote:His record pursuit had a dangerously slow start (first 1/2 kilo),
followed by an average 60 kph.

I'm not so sure that such a start is dangerous (it was a record after all). Over cooking the opening 2 laps is the biggest mistake made by most.

Besides, Boardman had very low peak power (max 5-sec < 900W) so he would not have been all that fast off the line and would have "lost" time there. But that lack of fast twitch fibre simply was more than compensated by a phenomenal aerobic engine and great aerodynamics.
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12 Jul 2011 12:26

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I'm not so sure that such a start is dangerous (it was a record after all). Over cooking the opening 2 laps is the biggest mistake made by most.

Besides, Boardman had very low peak power (max 5-sec < 900W) so he would not have been all that fast off the line and would have "lost" time there. But that lack of fast twitch fibre simply was more than compensated by a phenomenal aerobic engine and great aerodynamics.


Hi Alex, what kind of peak power would one expect from a contender for the hour record? And this next question is maybe unrelated, but is there a difference between peak power produced while in an out of the saddle hill climb and the power produced while time trialing?

Thanks!
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12 Jul 2011 20:48

When I said "dangerously", I did not mean that in an unprofessional way, of course. I just meant in comparison with the other rider. I think Chris was down a few seconds on the first kilo. His opponent went out way too fast and wound up with a disastrous last kilo, 1:09, if I remember correctly. (edit: I was thinking of a race of Obree's, where he started way behind. Boardman was only down 2 seconds.)

As to the question of peak power versus average power for a time trial, the average (if in an ideal aero position) is about 6.4 watts per kilogram for men. In pursuit, I would say about 7.6. (Maybe with Bobridge's new record, it might even be higher.) For women, about 5.7 and 6.6 wt/kg (same order).

Peak power will only affect how quickly you get up to speed from a standing start. Peak power for these events is probably about double the average watts for the event. More important than measuring peak power, would be your first lap time versus your total time. ( If you put too much power into your first lap, your total time may be even slower than if you start a little less aggressively.)
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Jack vs. Chris

13 Jul 2011 00:00

1:06.77 1:08.96 Jack up by 2.19
1:00.50 1:00.88 Jack up by 2.57
1:01.53 1:00.69 Jack up by 1.73
1:01.73 1:00.59 Jack up by 0.58

4:10.53 4:11.11

side by side
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13 Jul 2011 00:27

bc_hills wrote:Hi Alex, what kind of peak power would one expect from a contender for the hour record?

Peak power isn't relevant for an hour attempt, and everyone is different in that respect. Put it this way, Boardman's peak power was not a lot more than 850W, I'm an amputee cyclist (lower leg) and can do 1200W at peak. But I can't even do a kilo TT as fast as Boardman can do an hour!

Power requirements for an hour record are best expressed in terms of power to aerodynamic drag ratio - Power /CdA, measured as W/m^2.

For the athlete hour of 49.7km (standard mass start track bike), then you'll need something in the vicinity of 1650 - 1680 W/m^2, depending on air density and rolling resistance (assumes air density of 1.18kg/m^3 and Crr of 0.0023 - which is low and assumes a very fast track/excellent tyres/inner tubes).

e.g. if your CdA is 0.26m^2, then you'll need to have an average power for the hour of ~ 430-440W.

For the Boardman record of 56.375km, then you'll need ~ 2,430W/m^2

For the 4km pursuit record (4:10), then you'll need ~ 2,750W/m^2

Those numbers goes up and down depending on air density (hotter and lower pressure is faster). Temp at track when Bobridge rode his pursuit was very hot (even though it was indoor). I know, I was competing there myself and it was scorching hot.

bc_hills wrote:And this next question is maybe unrelated, but is there a difference between peak power produced while in an out of the saddle hill climb and the power produced while time trialing?

We can typically produce more power for brief durations when out of the saddle, but normally we can't sustain long efforts out of the saddle.

Power we can produce in a TT may be lower than seated hillclimb power due to the different positions on the bike. Some people also need to train to keep the pressure on the pedals on flatter ground as it's far easier to have micro rests on flat terrain than when climbing.

In a flat TT to get the fastest average speed you can trade off some power production for an improvement in aerodynamics, provided the combination is faster overall (highest W/m^2).

In a hillclimb, speed is all about power to weight ratio.

At a gradient of ~ 2%, it's about even between each factor.
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13 Jul 2011 01:16

By the way, for those interested in the various records, here is the official list from UCI website:

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getObject.asp?MenuId=MTUxMjc&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NTg5ODQ&LangId=1
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13 Jul 2011 12:31

Thanks for all that! It is a compelling record, that's for sure. It's interesting to see how little the One Hour record has moved (Ole Ritter to Sosenka is not much more than a 1 km gain) compared to the Best Hour.
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13 Jul 2011 22:25

bc_hills wrote:Thanks for all that! It is a compelling record, that's for sure. It's interesting to see how little the One Hour record has moved (Ole Ritter to Sosenka is not much more than a 1 km gain) compared to the Best Hour.


Yes, the aerodynamic improvements since then have been far less for the hour record than the best hour.
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15 Jul 2011 11:46

python wrote:i recall reading that ekimov held 1hr record before moser…a quick google check puts his at 49.672 meters

that’s only few m below sosenka’s and more that 200 m over boardman’s uci record.

anyone got a clue as to why eki’s record does not figure in the books ? it was indoors and so was sosenka’s…


On the 27/10/1986 at the age of twenty, Viatcheslav Ekimov broke the [color="Red"]AMATEUR[/color] World Hour Record with a distance of [color="Blue"]49.672 kilometres[/color] while riding a Rossin bike which was equipped with the optimal aero dynamic equipment available at the time.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:PRTZYzydG5wJ:bikereconstruction.com/Documents/one%2520hour.pdf+cache:PRTZYzydG5wJ:bikereconstruction.com/Documents/one%2520hour.pdf+ekimov+hour+record+1986+49.672&hl=en&gl=ie&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESisOfu5pDq7nGX8jzzmHY4PQE6PokZ9CrCizpyLL0lXIw5FNiqlw450AtbaMeCYXYcNs5BvMENbuqRZXYnF-cmpWLwM3p8rFitnd8jbN4b9rHuyR5-X-G7EevqN5uurezt_eF3V&sig=AHIEtbQypdMaWE3ck6h2hS-V9c8Wa2Rnpw

Can't find an image of the actual bike he rode. But I presume it would be quite similar to the [color="Green"]Rossin Bike[/color] seen at this link :

http://www.londoncyclesport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3259:rossin-ready-to-return&catid=43:gear-news&Itemid=102

Which also quotes :

It was a Golden era for the Italian cycle industry and Rossin developed many of the advances in technology that other builders later adopted, including the first sloping top tubes and ‘horned’ handlebar TT and track bikes used by both the Russian and US team at the LA Olympics, remember Eric Heiden, he rode Rossin and later by Viatchelav Ekimov when he claimed the Indoor hour record on a Rossin by riding 49.672km
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19 Jul 2011 06:25

Cancellara could break the absolute hour record or the standard bike record. He doesnt want to. There's lots of guys who could break it, their not interested. Its not a hobby of theirs.

Grand Tours & one day classics are all FTP races, for guys who have super high FTP per Kilos. Which is what the hour record is all about.

Why do no ex pros go for the HPV records? Because they dont care thats why. The HPV record's would be smashed by many pro cyclists, but their not interested in those because their too busy making money in pro cycling which has tangible monetary rewards. Either racing or management. Management takes up more time than riding by the way.
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19 Jul 2011 12:09

Eddy Merckx had to fund his own record attempt in 1972.

http://bikeraceinfo.com/riderhistories/Merckx-Hour-Record.html

Eddy was to ultimately pay over $20,000 of his own money to fulfill his purist dream
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