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Crap cage

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Crap cage

24 Apr 2017 03:03

I really love my new bike..I am still pretty fat but I like the sub 17lb setup. Everything is pretty modern but.. I still wanted mechanical.. not enough shops near me to support Ultegra or Dura Ace electronic..oh well.
Now the problem.. have tried two different brands of water bottle cages and the @#%*ing bottles fall out on bumpy roads.. and before you say those are the only roads available.
In my non-carbon. life I used alloy cages.. didn't care how much they weighed or how they looked. Because of my age..I use for straps for everything.. bringing a vest or rain jacket? I roll it into a burrito and use the strap to hold it on the seat rails.
And before if I was going Roubaix riding I would cage my second bottle and put a strap around it going behind the seat tube and the bottle was not coming off.
Yes it took some kooky technique to get the second bottle free for drinking but I had lots of experience.
Everything I do with my new bike scratches the thing!!the matte black shows everything.cleat touched the stay.. scratch..leaned ever so gently against whatever..lil' scratches!!
I want to get a cage that looks good, , still give the bike race look.. scared of the rub marks a strap will cause..the cockpit cabling looks like it will rub thru the head tube soon!!! don't even get me started how paranoid I am about the chain slapping on the stay..
I thought carbon fiber was a miracle.. but so far it feels really fragile to me
Unchained
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24 Apr 2017 04:36

Have a look at the Elite range of cages. These are generally the pros choice for cobbled races.

http://www.wiggle.com.au/elite-custom-race-bottle-cage-2014-1/

As for the cable rub, get some small frame stickers. They are generally clear and about the size of a small coin. Clean the area well first, then apply. You can also get them for your chainstay to protect against slapping.

http://www.wiggle.com.au/lizard-skins-frame-protector-patch-kit/
User avatar 42x16ss
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Re: Crap cage

27 Apr 2017 15:06

Unchained wrote:I really love my new bike..I am still pretty fat but I like the sub 17lb setup. Everything is pretty modern but.. I still wanted mechanical.. not enough shops near me to support Ultegra or Dura Ace electronic..oh well.
Now the problem.. have tried two different brands of water bottle cages and the @#%*ing bottles fall out on bumpy roads.. and before you say those are the only roads available.
In my non-carbon. life I used alloy cages.. didn't care how much they weighed or how they looked. Because of my age..I use for straps for everything.. bringing a vest or rain jacket? I roll it into a burrito and use the strap to hold it on the seat rails.
And before if I was going Roubaix riding I would cage my second bottle and put a strap around it going behind the seat tube and the bottle was not coming off.
Yes it took some kooky technique to get the second bottle free for drinking but I had lots of experience.
Everything I do with my new bike scratches the thing!!the matte black shows everything.cleat touched the stay.. scratch..leaned ever so gently against whatever..lil' scratches!!
I want to get a cage that looks good, , still give the bike race look.. scared of the rub marks a strap will cause..the cockpit cabling looks like it will rub thru the head tube soon!!! don't even get me started how paranoid I am about the chain slapping on the stay..
I thought carbon fiber was a miracle.. but so far it feels really fragile to me


King cage, stainless and titanium..bendable to make tighter, stainless/Ti so won't mark up bottles.
Iris model really nice.
http://www.kingcage.com/
User avatar Bustedknuckle
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01 May 2017 03:05

A bit late to the party, but Arundel Mandible cages hang onto bottles extremely well.
Not cheap, but I've got them on a couple of bikes including my gravel bike that I bounce off rocks, tree roots, creek beds etc and haven't even looked like losing a bottle yet.
http://www.arundelbike.com/product/mandible/
Tim B
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08 May 2017 13:15

My fave has always been the Tacx Tao.
User avatar veganrob
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Re:

18 May 2017 01:48

Tim B wrote:A bit late to the party, but Arundel Mandible cages hang onto bottles extremely well.
Not cheap, but I've got them on a couple of bikes including my gravel bike that I bounce off rocks, tree roots, creek beds etc and haven't even looked like losing a bottle yet.
http://www.arundelbike.com/product/mandible/

i second this. Not sure of the model but one of their heavier (still light) carbon cages works well enough for MTB riding.
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Re:

08 Jun 2017 21:44

42x16ss wrote:Have a look at the Elite range of cages. These are generally the pros choice for cobbled races.

http://www.wiggle.com.au/elite-custom-race-bottle-cage-2014-1/
This. Or any cheap plastic cage, really. Point is, plastic (with a bit of rubber, even better) is by far and away the best material for bottle cages. Light. Cheap. Pro. Can be deformed to hold bottles tighter or looser. Gentle on the bottle. Go plastic. It's fantastic.
"Christmas is tomorrow... Let's get in the break." - Matt Hayman, 4/9/16
"What a strange illusion it is to suppose that beauty is goodness." - Tolstoy
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26 Jun 2017 19:03

Actually cat eye makes an inexpensive all plastic cage that never lets go and lighter than most carbon cages. cheap, not that ugly, light and has absolutely no snob appeal. MTB performance. Metal cages I like elite traditional SS cages Bottles will pop out on rough roads.
Arundles for bling and function.
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Re: Crap cage

13 Jul 2017 00:08

Unchained wrote:I thought carbon fiber was a miracle.. but so far it feels really fragile to me


CF isn't as fragile as a few anti CF fanatics will lead you to believe, however it isn't as tough as the pro CF fanatics will lead you to believe either. The main bike shop where I live the lead mechanic who has worked there 7 years will not buy a CF bike after all the problems he's seen coming through the door. CF will do the weird stuff you mentioned, however the chain slap business was supposedly addressed about 8 or so years ago to some degree by applying an extra layer of CF weave and by putting a plastic guard on. You can of course protect it further but don't use tape, any tape will get ate very fast, use either a self stick on plastic guard, or use an old inner tube taped at the ends but that looks sort of tacky but it works, Lizard Skin makes a guard, you could wrap handlebar wrap with taped ends, or wrap a Mr Tuffy tire liner, a piece of 1" wide soft side of a velcro strip with adhesive backing, a piece of leather maybe from an old belt, there is a tape of sorts called rubber splicing tape that would work. There are a few options you could do to protect the chain stay; but in reality chain slap on a road bike should be a very rare event.
froze
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17 Jul 2017 03:45

Straps aren't a bad idea, however none of my cages eject bottles. I've had great success with Bontrager RXL, Lezyne CNC Alloy (it's literally impossible to have a bottle get ejected from that one), Chris King stainless, and the Elite Pria Pave (another impossible to eject cage, but a tad heavier than the others I have). Just so you know, I use only 27 ounce Polar bottles, these bottles are heavier due to the bottle being insulated and fluid volume, and they never get ejected from those cages I have. The only possible exception is the Chris King Stainless cage, occasionally I have to bend the top of the cage down a bit to get it to fit the bottle snug, after about 3 or so years of use I notice the bottle is not be held as tight so I rebend the cage, not a lot just enough to hold snug.
froze
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22 Jul 2017 01:52

I installed cheap plastic cages on suggestion of a local .the area that touches the bottle is much more than other cages I looked at..so far all is well but my riding has really been reduced.. time will tell..
I have been wiping the bike down after each use.. including the chain.. I didn't degrease the original oil on Shimano chain.as chain got a little noisy I applied Squirt and wiped off the excess..so far I like the bike, set up and performance of the drive train..
I am getting over how fragile the bike appears.. watched some YouTube videos of carbon vs aluminum and that was cool..
I have a place to keep the bike that is void of most side falls on tubes..so my fear\ paranoia has diminished a little..

Believe it or not.. humans have not knocked over my bike..dogs and cats..yep..
Unchained
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28 Jul 2017 21:11

If you want to see some videos of CF vs other stuff then watch these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvk63bmVpck

https://vimeo.com/106021360

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khJQgRLKMU0 On this video it may seem that the CF matrix and composite had a higher baseline than Cromoly steel but keep in mind that the CF tubes all fractured and would make any CF bike unrideable, whereas the Cromoly steel damage did no such thing and a person could continue to ride the bike, at least till they got home. Too bad they didn't test stainless and titanium tubing.

They're kind of funny.

The weird thing about CF tubing, which turned me off, was I could press in a CF downtube with my just my finger strength by squeezing the tube between my index finger and my thumb, just under that pressure alone the tube was flexing inward, I stopped for fear I may damage the frame and it wasn't my frame. I did this on a mid level Trek. And I'm not some sort of strong muscle builder type either. This why fastening anything onto a CF part be it frame, handlebar, seat tube, seat rails, etc, the owner of such a bike needs to be mindful of the torque they're applying to the CF, or they could compromise the integrity of the tubing, so it's very wise to invest in a torque wrench.
froze
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20 Aug 2017 16:16

Never use a torque wrench on carbon. So many cracked frames . You don't know if the tool is accurate. Just use plenty of carbon paste and just tighten until it feels tight. That is the way to go. Use carbon paste to tighten up anything . It is very effective and reduces the amount of force needed. So many stories of torque wrenches clicking and frames cracking.
Lv426
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Re:

20 Aug 2017 18:54

Lv426 wrote:Never use a torque wrench on carbon. So many cracked frames . You don't know if the tool is accurate. Just use plenty of carbon paste and just tighten until it feels tight. That is the way to go. Use carbon paste to tighten up anything . It is very effective and reduces the amount of force needed. So many stories of torque wrenches clicking and frames cracking.


This is incorrect, I've known people who cracked their carbon crap by NOT using a torque wrench because they were trying to do it till it feels tight. If you buy a quality torque wrench you won't have that issue. Preset torque wrenches are the best to use, and Park are the best; if you want an adjustable torque wrench Wiggles sell a nice one for only about $90 called Lifeline Professional. But if you buy a poorly made torque wrench you'll run into trouble, either that or take your bike to the bike shop and have them do it, then if they crack something it's on them.

Or simply not buy a CF bike and not have worry about crushing or cracking stuff; now I have to duck to miss the rocks being thrown my way.
froze
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Re: Re:

28 Aug 2017 20:11

froze wrote:
Lv426 wrote:Never use a torque wrench on carbon. So many cracked frames . You don't know if the tool is accurate. Just use plenty of carbon paste and just tighten until it feels tight. That is the way to go. Use carbon paste to tighten up anything . It is very effective and reduces the amount of force needed. So many stories of torque wrenches clicking and frames cracking.


This is incorrect, I've known people who cracked their carbon crap by NOT using a torque wrench because they were trying to do it till it feels tight. If you buy a quality torque wrench you won't have that issue. Preset torque wrenches are the best to use, and Park are the best; if you want an adjustable torque wrench Wiggles sell a nice one for only about $90 called Lifeline Professional. But if you buy a poorly made torque wrench you'll run into trouble, either that or take your bike to the bike shop and have them do it, then if they crack something it's on them.


Or simply not buy a CF bike and not have worry about crushing or cracking stuff; now I have to duck to dmiss the rocks being thrown my way.[/quote

Your obviously a carbon expert . I don't really have much experience with carbon bikes , just going on what my bike mechanic tells me about the bikes that come back broken from use of torque wrench. He himself does not use a torque wrench on carbon bikes ,,years of experience I suppose. Wasn't there a guy on here who had crazy weenie carbon bikes . He would know for sure . I loved that guys bikes .
Lv426
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30 Aug 2017 03:23

Odd because I don't know of any bike mechanic who doesn't use a torque wrench and the one guy I know has 17 or so years doing this work. Those that say they can do it by touch I kind of cringe at, what happens if he misjudges once and something cracks or breaks? who gets the blame? There are even certain things on non CF bikes that are requiring the use of a torq wrench so this something exclusive for carbon, but carbon is more fragile to cracking from pressure, you can test this yourself by going down to a bike shop and secretly walk over to a CF road bike and take your thumb and index finger and try squeezing the middle of the top tube and you should feel it give slightly, i've done this, and thoughts of buying a CF bike were erased from my mind. And by the way, the mechanic who has 17 or so year of experience told me he would never own a CF bike, somethings to think about.
froze
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Re:

30 Aug 2017 12:55

froze wrote:Odd because I don't know of any bike mechanic who doesn't use a torque wrench and the one guy I know has 17 or so years doing this work. Those that say they can do it by touch I kind of cringe at, what happens if he misjudges once and something cracks or breaks? who gets the blame? There are even certain things on non CF bikes that are requiring the use of a torq wrench so this something exclusive for carbon, but carbon is more fragile to cracking from pressure, you can test this yourself by going down to a bike shop and secretly walk over to a CF road bike and take your thumb and index finger and try squeezing the middle of the top tube and you should feel it give slightly, i've done this, and thoughts of buying a CF bike were erased from my mind. And by the way, the mechanic who has 17 or so year of experience told me he would never own a CF bike, somethings to think about.


I'd love a carbon bike . A really light one. Steel , alloy .carbon. It can all break. Carbon seems to be the choice of pro teams. I mean if you look at the weight of components you can easily get a steel bike down to uci limit . There was one bike I saw that was 11 pounds and it was steel ..can't remember who made it maybe apple or English . Some company like that,carbon has huge advantages in the shapes you can make the tubes not so easy with other materials. Mechanics don't tend ride bikes they just fix them :lol:
Lv426
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Re: Re:

31 Aug 2017 02:22

Lv426 wrote:
froze wrote:Odd because I don't know of any bike mechanic who doesn't use a torque wrench and the one guy I know has 17 or so years doing this work. Those that say they can do it by touch I kind of cringe at, what happens if he misjudges once and something cracks or breaks? who gets the blame? There are even certain things on non CF bikes that are requiring the use of a torq wrench so this something exclusive for carbon, but carbon is more fragile to cracking from pressure, you can test this yourself by going down to a bike shop and secretly walk over to a CF road bike and take your thumb and index finger and try squeezing the middle of the top tube and you should feel it give slightly, i've done this, and thoughts of buying a CF bike were erased from my mind. And by the way, the mechanic who has 17 or so year of experience told me he would never own a CF bike, somethings to think about.


I'd love a carbon bike . A really light one. Steel , alloy .carbon. It can all break. Carbon seems to be the choice of pro teams. I mean if you look at the weight of components you can easily get a steel bike down to uci limit . There was one bike I saw that was 11 pounds and it was steel ..can't remember who made it maybe apple or English . Some company like that,carbon has huge advantages in the shapes you can make the tubes not so easy with other materials. Mechanics don't tend ride bikes they just fix them :lol:


I see, if the pros use it then we all should be using because it's all good. Maybe you should read this first before you comment on what pros are using: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/sports/cycling/as-technology-makes-bicycles-lighter-and-faster-it8217s-the-cyclists-falling-harder.html?mcubz=0 Besides the stuff that pro cyclists use isn't stuff that the average or even above average cyclist needs to be getting because for one that stuff cost a lot of money, and two the average cyclist will never take advantage of it's abilities, so it's just wasted money with the sole purpose to show off. Yes I know, wealthy people have the right to buy whatever they want and that's fine, but the reason they buy a Rolls Royce Phantom, or a Hennessey Venom GT, is for one thing and one thing only...to show off, there is no place in America where you can go and let the Hennessey open up to 270 mph, so if you can't use all that speed why does a person buy it? to show off. If a cyclist can't maintain the average speed of a pro cyclist but owns a $15,000 bike that was for that purpose why did they buy it? to show off. See a common denominator there yet?

That 11 pound steel bike is made by English Cycles and is a one of kind, it's not all steel, as the fork is CF, and the seat tube is CF. However the lightest production steel bike with a CF fork is 13.5 pounds made by Rodriguez Cycles called the Outlaw Red Lite, but it's rather expensive at $11,000, but I'm sure if English Cycles decided to sell that one of kind bike it would go for a lot more than $11,000. The weird thing about some of these prices that some of the new bikes go for, like the Cervelo P5x ETap Tri bike that cost $15,000, is that you can get a Suzuki 1300 Hayabusa, or the BMW S1000RR, or a Chevy Sonic for that kind of money, and I doubt it VERY seriously that the bicycle has more technology in it than either of those motorcycles or the car! Can we spell S C A M??

But I'm off the subject, why? to make a point that just because a pro cyclist gets such and such bike doesn't mean it makes sense for us to go out and get it too, the pros get their bikes for free, we don't have that luxury, and if they crash it they get another for free. By the way, when pros do training rides, they ride much cheaper bikes...hmmm.
froze
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Re: Re:

31 Aug 2017 13:33

froze wrote:
Lv426 wrote:
froze wrote:Odd because I don't know of any bike mechanic who doesn't use a torque wrench and the one guy I know has 17 or so years doing this work. Those that say they can do it by touch I kind of cringe at, what happens if he misjudges once and something cracks or breaks? who gets the blame? There are even certain things on non CF bikes that are requiring the use of a torq wrench so this something exclusive for carbon, but carbon is more fragile to cracking from pressure, you can test this yourself by going down to a bike shop and secretly walk over to a CF road bike and take your thumb and index finger and try squeezing the middle of the top tube and you should feel it give slightly, i've done this, and thoughts of buying a CF bike were erased from my mind. And by the way, the mechanic who has 17 or so year of experience told me he would never own a CF bike, somethings to think about.


I'd love a carbon bike . A really light one. Steel , alloy .carbon. It can all break. Carbon seems to be the choice of pro teams. I mean if you look at the weight of components you can easily get a steel bike down to uci limit . There was one bike I saw that was 11 pounds and it was steel ..can't remember who made it maybe apple or English . Some company like that,carbon has huge advantages in the shapes you can make the tubes not so easy with other materials. Mechanics don't tend ride bikes they just fix them :lol:


I see, if the pros use it then we all should be using because it's all good. Maybe you should read this first before you comment on what pros are using: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/sports/cycling/as-technology-makes-bicycles-lighter-and-faster-it8217s-the-cyclists-falling-harder.html?mcubz=0 Besides the stuff that pro cyclists use isn't stuff that the average or even above average cyclist needs to be getting because for one that stuff cost a lot of money, and two the average cyclist will never take advantage of it's abilities, so it's just wasted money with the sole purpose to show off. Yes I know, wealthy people have the right to buy whatever they want and that's fine, but the reason they buy a Rolls Royce Phantom, or a Hennessey Venom GT, is for one thing and one thing only...to show off, there is no place in America where you can go and let the Hennessey open up to 270 mph, so if you can't use all that speed why does a person buy it? to show off. If a cyclist can't maintain the average speed of a pro cyclist but owns a $15,000 bike that was for that purpose why did they buy it? to show off. See a common denominator there yet?

That 11 pound steel bike is made by English Cycles and is a one of kind, it's not all steel, as the fork is CF, and the seat tube is CF. However the lightest production steel bike with a CF fork is 13.5 pounds made by Rodriguez Cycles called the Outlaw Red Lite, but it's rather expensive at $11,000, but I'm sure if English Cycles decided to sell that one of kind bike it would go for a lot more than $11,000. The weird thing about some of these prices that some of the new bikes go for, like the Cervelo P5x ETap Tri bike that cost $15,000, is that you can get a Suzuki 1300 Hayabusa, or the BMW S1000RR, or a Chevy Sonic for that kind of money, and I doubt it VERY seriously that the bicycle has more technology in it than either of those motorcycles or the car! Can we spell S C A M??

But I'm off the subject, why? to make a point that just because a pro cyclist gets such and such bike doesn't mean it makes sense for us to go out and get it too, the pros get their bikes for free, we don't have that luxury, and if they crash it they get another for free. By the way, when pros do training rides, they ride much cheaper bikes...hmmm.



I'm not arguing with . I'd love a super light carbon bike . I'm not planning on crashing :lol:
Pro riders are allocated a number of team bikes all of which are carbon . If you have ever seen or rode with pros ( I have ) they usually just swap the wheels out for clinchers . If you look at some of the older pro riders that have retired Armstrong custom , crumpton . Hamilton was riding a crazy light carbon bike most are riding carbon bikes because they are much lighter and much more fun to ride. That's why I'd love a crazy light one. If the crashing was such a big issue then pro teams would stop using them. sponsors pay for bikes so the teams don't care .whos to say what the effect of a crash could be. You could easily get badly hurt riding any material bike. There's plenty of photos of steel bikes completely snapped ( google)
I agree prices are way over the top . I know this because my friend who runs a shop told me the actual cost they pay for some top line bikes and they make way more than I ever thought. But it's the market and what people are willing to pay. They will squeeze you for every penny . If riders think spending money will make them faster then they are idiots . You have to bust your as£ ,simple.
Lv426
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02 Sep 2017 00:22

Bike and component manufacturers recommend and require torque wrenches for a reason. End of..
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