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Giant Warranty Issue

Which tyres for Paris-Roubaix? Whose time trial bike is fastest? Suspension mountain bikes or singlespeeders? Talk equipment here.

Moderator: Pricey_sky

27 May 2009 01:11

John Stevenson wrote:<snip>
You crashed. When that happens, all warranty bets are off. The equipment has been abused, pure and simple. You have no certain knowledge of the forces it underwent or whether they are within its reasonable operating parameters.
<snip>

Do you honestly believe that losing the front end at under 30kph, on the flat on a nice road, will subject the forks to supra-operating parameters? Interesting.


John Stevenson wrote:I'm sorry you crashed. I'm glad you're all right (we hate to lose readers that way). But this isn't Giant's or your dealer's problem.

Fairly sure it's not that way that you lose readers.


As an aside, for an editor, your grammar sucks :D
robbo85
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27 May 2009 20:49

I don't think he's being honest about the "crash". It was probably either a high speed crash into a curb or he had the bike on a roof rack and damaged the fork.

The problem with the internet is you can dispense the information to fit whatever view point you want to portray.

I will say, though, that I would NEVER expect a manufacturer to replace my bike if I crashed it. The fact that Giant was willing to offer you a discount on a new bike is not a bad deal. But honestly, if the rest of the bike is really perfectly functional, as you say, then just poney up $300 and buy a new fork.
nightfend
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28 May 2009 03:23

Why lie on the forum? Lying to Giant is one thing but why here?
Cheers...Daryl

-Life is too important to be taken seriously-
User avatar Black Dog
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28 May 2009 05:27

nightfend wrote:I don't think he's being honest about the "crash". It was probably either a high speed crash into a curb or he had the bike on a roof rack and damaged the fork.

The problem with the internet is you can dispense the information to fit whatever view point you want to portray.


No.

As i said if i wanted to lie, why would i even bring it here? I could have just lied to Giant and said "Oh i crashed this morning but before i crashed i heard a cracking sound in my forks, and then it gave way and fell off". So you see, there is absolutely no point in me lying here. You can believe what you want but I know i didn't lie, and if you think i did, well then, that's your opinion.

A high speed crash into a curb? No.
Bike on a roof rack causing damage? No.

Honestly, think about what you're saying, if I was lying, would I even have wasted my time in bringing it here and creating a huge fuss about it all?

I think I understand why you think i'm lying, its because you think there's no plausible situation in which this could have occurred unless I subjected it to some kind of violent force (which you are speculating with your two scenarios). I totally agree, it is a difficult situation to believe, but for the reasons listed above, i am not lying. It is also for this reason that I believe Giant should have dealt with me a more favorable manner than the way they did.

-Iceman
iceman2321
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28 May 2009 11:28

nightfend wrote:I don't think he's being honest about the "crash". It was probably either a high speed crash into a curb or he had the bike on a roof rack and damaged the fork.

The problem with the internet is you can dispense the information to fit whatever view point you want to portray.

I will say, though, that I would NEVER expect a manufacturer to replace my bike if I crashed it. The fact that Giant was willing to offer you a discount on a new bike is not a bad deal. But honestly, if the rest of the bike is really perfectly functional, as you say, then just poney up $300 and buy a new fork.


I've seen a customer at the bike shop I work at, hit a car safety rail, going at least 40km/h and the fork had half the damage this one had... Hard to think that the is no failure in the fork material/design.
User avatar Nevermind
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30 May 2009 08:14

Iceman,

Sort of related, today Cyclesport Victoria (Aust) held a Kermesse at Calder Park, 1hr + 3 laps. The bell lap, the usual madness, bang - down came a rider at the back 3rd of the pack. The fella was slow to get up so we went over to check on his condition. He was ok suffering the usual road rash & injured pride. His ride - A Giant, with his forks snapped in the exact same way as yours, near identical. Take into account the higher speeds (60km/h) etc. but, most people were absolutely shocked to see the amount of damage done and how cleanly the forks snapped.
User avatar AusMatty
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30 May 2009 08:21

AusMatty wrote:His ride - A Giant, with his forks snapped in the exact same way as yours, near identical. Take into account the higher speeds (60km/h) etc. but, most people were absolutely shocked to see the amount of damage done and how cleanly the forks snapped.


You pretty much summed up exactly how I felt when I picked up by bike after crashing. The complete shearing off of both fork blades absolutely shocked me beyond belief, considering the low speeds. I guess at 60km/h it makes it easier to break something, but still, things shouldn't fail like that, then again, I'm not sure exactly of the circumstances of the crash, so I don't want to pass judgement. Could you explain the crash in a bit more detail? Hope the guy has insurance, because otherwise he will get nothing from Giant. Let me know what happens.

Cheers,
-Iceman
iceman2321
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01 Jun 2009 06:30

Iceman. To let you and everybody else who has read about what happend to him, I have a cannondale super six that just last week my fork broke going down hill. I did not impact anything. nothing abnormal. I was going around a curve it snaped and down hard I went. No reason at all, it just snaped worse than yours when it hit the ground the handle bars came around and broke the top tube. I have talked to cannondale they are going to let me know about what they are going to do about it tommorow. I will get back with you to let you know what happened. The owner of the bike shop I took it to could not believe it ethier. He said he has never seen a fork brake.
mike25
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01 Jun 2009 07:20

mike25 wrote:I have a cannondale super six that just last week my fork broke going down hill. I did not impact anything. nothing abnormal. I was going around a curve it snaped and down hard I went. No reason at all, it just snaped worse than yours when it hit the ground the handle bars came around and broke the top tube.


Wow that sounds really bad, especially going down hill. Hope you are okay mate.

But from what you're telling me, it definitely sounds like they should replace your entire frameset, if not put you on a new bike. But let me know what they decide and how it all turns out.

-Iceman
iceman2321
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02 Jun 2009 04:10

Well, carbon does fail catastrophically...
In the best of all possible worlds, Giant probably should have taken care of him. And a smaller manufacturer probably would have.

But from a shop point of view, this appears to be the classic JRA. As in, I was Just Riding Along when ...(fill in the blank with horrible bike damage). Maybe it did happen that way, but shops and manufacturers also see plenty of the other way around, i.e. bikes being abused and people claiming they weren't. This is probably the best case for having a good relationship with your local shop and buying a bike there. They will be willing to help you out.
Otherwise, **** happens, and you take your chances.
slcbiker
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02 Jun 2009 06:15

slcbiker wrote:Well, carbon does fail catastrophically...
In the best of all possible worlds, Giant probably should have taken care of him. And a smaller manufacturer probably would have.

But from a shop point of view, this appears to be the classic JRA. As in, I was Just Riding Along when ...(fill in the blank with horrible bike damage). Maybe it did happen that way, but shops and manufacturers also see plenty of the other way around, i.e. bikes being abused and people claiming they weren't. This is probably the best case for having a good relationship with your local shop and buying a bike there. They will be willing to help you out.
Otherwise, **** happens, and you take your chances.


I actually believe it's the other way around, bicycle parts failing due to manufacturing faults and shops/manufacturers hiding behind the "abuse" defence. That's speaking from experience when my saddle rail cracked and the shop employee accused me of riding roughly over bumps! The manufacturer also denied any manufacturing fault but I got my money back via consumer protection laws.
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07 Jun 2009 06:22

you crashed it end of story , would you rather they broke 6 months later down the track when you were descending some hill at 80 clicks.Whatever you did they didn't like but I don't see a wave of recalls on Giant, Colnago, BH or whoever else they make forks for.
It looks catastrophic but thats the nature of carbon , back in the pre-carbon days you would get up from a heavy crash & find steel forks bent back & frame kinked on the top & down tube, sometimes rideable sometimes not . Its no coincidence that when you watch the Tour nowadays after a crash the team mechanic has a bike ready in hand rather than wheels because bikes nowadays don't bounce.

http://www.bustedcarbon.com if you want to see some broken bikes.
User avatar Slumdog-Zomergem
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07 Jun 2009 09:14

Slumdog-Zomergem wrote:http://www.bustedcarbon.com if you want to see some broken bikes.


That site has a lot of interesting photos. It is too bad there is hardly any info about what caused each break. Some of the stuff is pretty scary.

There are also several shots of broken forks that have both arms sheered off at roughly the same distance from the crown, some with intact wheels. So maybe this is a fairly common mode of failure.

This R-SYS crash looks painful. Break your carbon spokes and the guy behind you faceplants into a fence post.

Image
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
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07 Jun 2009 11:16

Slumdog-Zomergem wrote:Whatever you did they didn't like but I don't see a wave of recalls on Giant, Colnago, BH or whoever else they make forks for.


Giant makes forks only for Giant bikes, Colnago, BH make their own forks. Just thought I'd clear that up.

Slumdog-Zomergem wrote:would you rather they broke 6 months later down the track when you were descending some hill at 80 clicks


no.

I would rather the manufacturer created a quality product for the money i paid and if it broke within normal operating parameters, i would expect them to replace the broken part at the very least.

Slumdog-Zomergem wrote:you crashed it end of story


No.
That's not the end of the story, far from it actually.

Don't you get it? this is exactly the type of mentality that i'm vehemently against in the cycling industry. Yes i did crash, yes i take responsibility, but if i don't subject it to forces anywhere near its operating limit, and it breaks, then yes, i also do have a right to ask why it could have possibly gone wrong. If I crash out and smash the gear levers and rip the saddle into pieces, I can deal with that. If I hit a car or ram my bike into a curb hard and the fork and/or frame breaks, I can deal with that.

If i fall off the side at under 30km/h on a flat road without hitting anything, and the forks shear in half, sorry, but i cannot deal with that.

example - you lightly hit another car coming to an intersection, some lights are knocked out and the front bumper is a wacked out of shape with scratches everywhere, you can deal with that. but if the entire front of the car splits open, and the engine is wrecked as a result, would you be able to deal with that?

You drop your bike on the ground or you fail to clip out at an intersection and fall off...and the top tube snaps in half, there's a structural problem with the material itself is there not? you cannot guarantee that each and every single frame/fork is 100% structurally sound, unless each and every bike that comes off the production line is scanned manually with a scanning electron microscope. and i'm pretty sure that doesn't happen at giant, or any other manufacturer for that instance.

If what you're saying is the case, then all manufacturer's have no need to have 'warranty', or write those little booklets with the fine print, because if the bike get's damaged its clearly the customer's fault.

Unless the customer lies and tells the manufacturer/shop that the frame/fork broke/gave way prior to the crash, then there's no chance of getting anything? I dont believe this is right, and judging by the posts from other riders, i think they agree with me.

-Iceman
iceman2321
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07 Jun 2009 11:18

biker jk wrote:I actually believe it's the other way around, bicycle parts failing due to manufacturing faults and shops/manufacturers hiding behind the "abuse" defence. That's speaking from experience when my saddle rail cracked and the shop employee accused me of riding roughly over bumps! The manufacturer also denied any manufacturing fault but I got my money back via consumer protection laws.


Exactly. Even with 'warranty' they can just shift the blame onto you everytime and give you nothing.
iceman2321
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07 Jun 2009 11:45

iceman2321 wrote:Giant makes forks only for Giant bikes, Colnago, BH make their own forks. Just thought I'd clear that up.

-Iceman



The likes of Colnago & co. trust Giant's experience of composites to put their decals on their product. The actual division of Giant related to composites is C-Tech , you can read about it here:
http://www.ctex.com.tw/ENG/About.htm

Any knowledgable or honest storeperson should be able to tell you which factory in Asia is producing the likes of Orbea, Bianchi, Pinarello etc. be it Hodaka , Martec, ADK, Merida etc.
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10 Jun 2009 11:25

If you read a Giant bicycle owner's manual it states that your warranty is void if you:

- enter a race with your bike
- train for a race with your bike
- ride the bike off road (yes, even mountain bikes)

Pretty amazing stuff - it isn't just Giant. I remember reading that the warranty is voided by racing or training for a race in the Scott owner's manual last year.

In reality I think Giant and other companies wouldn't enforce it unless they thought someone was taking the p1ss - but it is stated.

However, with regard to the broken forks, I agree with some of the comments above. If you crash the bike then all bets are off and they are well within their rights to not warranty your bike. You cannot know what forces were at work, regardless of the speed of the crash. I would be surprised if any manufacturer would give you any joy in that situation.
User avatar columbus max
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10 Jun 2009 16:38

columbus max wrote:If you read a Giant bicycle owner's manual it states that your warranty is void if you:

- enter a race with your bike
- train for a race with your bike
- ride the bike off road (yes, even mountain bikes)


LOL. I would like to see them enforce that in court. They are selling race bikes and have spent a lot of money to convince consumers to buy their product because of how it performs while racing.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
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13 Jun 2009 12:28

mike25 wrote: The owner of the bike shop I took it to could not believe it ethier. He said he has never seen a fork brake.


Damn dude, you better find another shop if he's never seen a fork brake before.
:D

Maybe he just deals in track bikes though.:p
Johnny Colnago
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13 Jun 2009 14:37

Johnny Colnago wrote:Damn dude, you better find another shop if he's never seen a fork brake before.
:D

Maybe he just deals in track bikes though.:p


You have to admit though, it's a pretty rare occurrence when a fork snaps/shears in half no matter in what circumstances really. Thank god it doesn't happen everyday, because that would be a real worry.

-Iceman
iceman2321
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