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Disc brakes on road bikes...

Which tyres for Paris-Roubaix? Whose time trial bike is fastest? Suspension mountain bikes or singlespeeders? Talk equipment here.

Moderator: Pricey_sky

20 Aug 2017 15:03

If I see even a tiny hint that either Blutto, Giuseppe Magnetico, semper fidelis, aphronesis, or anyone else that hangs out in the cafe crowd, doing any more baiting, trolling, instigating, (towards each other) or any other infraction I think of, the consequences will be severe. Like a ban of three or more months.

I get it, you all don't like each other. But guess what? I'm sick of hearing and reading the reports and all the comments that bait, troll and disparage each other, and then tattle on the person that responded to the baiting, trolling, and insults.

You all know that I think a lot of you, so please don't make me act like an adult and follow through with my promise (not a threat, there's a big difference).
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User avatar Irondan
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

20 Aug 2017 16:08

If the weight limit gets dropped then climbers will opt for the lightest set up possible . This is not going to be a bike with discs. Bikes already heading towards sub 600 gram frames . It would be pointless having to add extra weight when many pro riders have already said that discs are not needed. No matter what kind of super light fork /frame is developed to cope with discs brakes it will always be lighter using non disc brakes. Discs have their place but if you can climb on the lightest bike possible it would not have discs. Thinking about it maybe the there will be less mountain top finishes in the tour like this year. Maybe manufacturers are pressing for routes that may benefit the disc brake agenda . Money wins.
Lv426
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20 Aug 2017 18:46

People have been talking about lowering the minimum weight limit for eons, but this is up to the UCI technical committee so don't hold your breath. They still have more pressing issues to figure out, like how not to injure or kill riders with motorcycles, poor course planning, and fencing in finishing straights with no protruding feet. So when it comes to technology you would think pro riders would have F1 like input into their gear.., but they thought synthetic chamois were inferior to real leather, clipless pedals weren't macho enough, helmets weren't either (so much so that they felt the need to protest compulsory use), and integrated shift/brake levers and deep carbon wheels were too heavy. D-brake technology isn't exactly stagnating. The disc systems and bikes today are lighter and more refined than they were just a couple years ago, and far more abundant. Splitting hairs over what is essentially the heft a 3/4 full bidon, weight isn't going to be the same as it is now once there's full immersion. And when everybody is on them then it's all equal anyway. It won't happen tomorrow, but it's coming.

Re: the money thing. If there really was money in road cycling at the moment elite level teams wouldn't be scrambling to lock up last minute pre-season deals with people accused of human rights violations.
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

23 Aug 2017 13:39

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Hmm, for the past 10 years of disc brakes on drop bar bikes I have yet to personally come across someone who bought the bike and thought it was a mistake. What I do experience is many forehead slapping V8 moments, like why didn't they do it earlier.

This was me, a V8 head slapper. I too thought "what's the point? Plus they weigh more." Then, I actually rode a bike with them, first mechanical, then hydraulic. Now, every bike I own, and consider buying, has discs, and there is no going back. Ever. Period. End of statement.

I'm convinced the only people against disc brakes are those who have never ridden them, or so rarely ride them to the point they can't properly evaluate them. There are a few others I should add, people that just resist change, no matter what, and find a way to rationalize their resistance. Philosopher Eric Hoffer wrote an entire book on this concept, The Ordeal of Change, in case anyone wants to wake up first, before switching over.

https://www.amazon.com/Ordeal-Change-Eric-Hoffer/dp/1933435100
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

23 Aug 2017 13:48

Alpe d'Huez wrote:This was me, a V8 head slapper. I too thought "what's the point? Plus they weigh more." Then, I actually rode a bike with them, first mechanical, then hydraulic. Now, every bike I own, and consider buying, has discs, and there is no going back. Ever. Period. End of statement.

I'm convinced the only people against disc brakes are those who have never ridden them, or so rarely ride them to the point they can't properly evaluate them. There are a few others I should add, people that just resist change, no matter what, and find a way to rationalize their resistance. Philosopher Eric Hoffer wrote an entire book on this concept, The Ordeal of Change, in case anyone wants to wake up first, before switching over.

https://www.amazon.com/Ordeal-Change-Eric-Hoffer/dp/1933435100

Yes, I think some form of strange xenophobia or hyper-conservatism among road bikers is slowing the implementation of disc brakes. The almost hysterical reactions by some in the peleton only reinforce my opinion on that. Disc brakes are just superior, period. I don't understand how there can be 32 pages of discussion on this.
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23 Aug 2017 13:56

As I see it, the only, and I mean only, reason not to go disc brakes, is if you are a total weight weenie, building a bike for something like the Mt. Washington hill climb, a race with no weight restrictions. Then, I get it, just one, single, front caliper brake will do it. A disc would be a waste for the entire 7.6 miles you'd be riding up that thing.

I should also note, if you're on a budget, and can't afford discs, and are happy with your caliper brakes and they work, I'm good with that. Keep on riding, and save your money. That's never a bad thing.

Otherwise, it's the same irrational resistance we saw from cyclists about everything from aero bars, to clipless pedals, to helmets even.
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

23 Aug 2017 14:08

Jagartrott wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:This was me, a V8 head slapper. I too thought "what's the point? Plus they weigh more." Then, I actually rode a bike with them, first mechanical, then hydraulic. Now, every bike I own, and consider buying, has discs, and there is no going back. Ever. Period. End of statement.

I'm convinced the only people against disc brakes are those who have never ridden them, or so rarely ride them to the point they can't properly evaluate them. There are a few others I should add, people that just resist change, no matter what, and find a way to rationalize their resistance. Philosopher Eric Hoffer wrote an entire book on this concept, The Ordeal of Change, in case anyone wants to wake up first, before switching over.

https://www.amazon.com/Ordeal-Change-Eric-Hoffer/dp/1933435100

Yes, I think some form of strange xenophobia or hyper-conservatism among road bikers is slowing the implementation of disc brakes. The almost hysterical reactions by some in the peleton only reinforce my opinion on that. Disc brakes are just superior, period. I don't understand how there can be 32 pages of discussion on this.

Haha, if you look back you'll see that maybe 16 pages of the 32 are actual discussion, the rest is well... um...

I hadn't owned a bike with disk brakes until my mother in law gave me a brand new Rad Mini last month. I didn't realize how much fun an electric bike could be (and I was dead set against them) but anyway, it has disk brakes that constantly rub which makes an otherwise pleasant experience a little annoying. All the adjustment in the world won't stop the tiny rubbing which doesn't affect performance but I can still hear it! This bike weighs a good 60 to 75 pounds, I'm not really sure because I haven't weighed it yet but the fact remains that it's quite heavy. I couldn't imagine rim brakes stopping or even slowing down this behemoth, so the disk brakes certainly have their place on bikes. As far as getting them for a road bike, I'm not convinced that I need them and like the traditional rim brakes that I have on my other bikes. It's not that I have anything against disk brakes, I just like the traditional look. So for me, outside of my electric bike it's all about personal choice. I'd hate to see disk brakes become so popular that they phase out traditional rim brakes...
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

23 Aug 2017 14:28

Alpe d'Huez wrote:
Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Hmm, for the past 10 years of disc brakes on drop bar bikes I have yet to personally come across someone who bought the bike and thought it was a mistake. What I do experience is many forehead slapping V8 moments, like why didn't they do it earlier.

This was me, a V8 head slapper. I too thought "what's the point? Plus they weigh more." Then, I actually rode a bike with them, first mechanical, then hydraulic. Now, every bike I own, and consider buying, has discs, and there is no going back. Ever. Period. End of statement.

I'm convinced the only people against disc brakes are those who have never ridden them, or so rarely ride them to the point they can't properly evaluate them. There are a few others I should add, people that just resist change, no matter what, and find a way to rationalize their resistance. Philosopher Eric Hoffer wrote an entire book on this concept, The Ordeal of Change, in case anyone wants to wake up first, before switching over.

https://www.amazon.com/Ordeal-Change-Eric-Hoffer/dp/1933435100


....kinda funny that you trot out Hoffer to back-stop your statement.....

Cheers
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23 Aug 2017 15:29

Funny because...?
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

23 Aug 2017 18:00

Jagartrott wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:This was me, a V8 head slapper. I too thought "what's the point? Plus they weigh more." Then, I actually rode a bike with them, first mechanical, then hydraulic. Now, every bike I own, and consider buying, has discs, and there is no going back. Ever. Period. End of statement.

I'm convinced the only people against disc brakes are those who have never ridden them, or so rarely ride them to the point they can't properly evaluate them. There are a few others I should add, people that just resist change, no matter what, and find a way to rationalize their resistance. Philosopher Eric Hoffer wrote an entire book on this concept, The Ordeal of Change, in case anyone wants to wake up first, before switching over.

https://www.amazon.com/Ordeal-Change-Eric-Hoffer/dp/1933435100

Yes, I think some form of strange xenophobia or hyper-conservatism among road bikers is slowing the implementation of disc brakes. The almost hysterical reactions by some in the peleton only reinforce my opinion on that. Disc brakes are just superior, period. I don't understand how there can be 32 pages of discussion on this.


PelOton, please. Disc brakes are more powerful and have superior modulation but group to group, disc brakes are heavier, more expensive and more complicated to install/setup. In addition, no such thing as 'upgrading' your present rig...new bike complete required. Also 'superior' implies there is something inherently wrong with caliper brakes on aluminum rims, function-wise. As in they are weak, flexy, not effective. So....imho, each rider/consumer needs to determine the 'are they worth it to me' calculus. For me they aren't.
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

23 Aug 2017 18:08

Alpe d'Huez wrote:
Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Hmm, for the past 10 years of disc brakes on drop bar bikes I have yet to personally come across someone who bought the bike and thought it was a mistake. What I do experience is many forehead slapping V8 moments, like why didn't they do it earlier.

This was me, a V8 head slapper. I too thought "what's the point? Plus they weigh more." Then, I actually rode a bike with them, first mechanical, then hydraulic. Now, every bike I own, and consider buying, has discs, and there is no going back. Ever. Period. End of statement.

I'm convinced the only people against disc brakes are those who have never ridden them, or so rarely ride them to the point they can't properly evaluate them. There are a few others I should add, people that just resist change, no matter what, and find a way to rationalize their resistance. Philosopher Eric Hoffer wrote an entire book on this concept, The Ordeal of Change, in case anyone wants to wake up first, before switching over.

https://www.amazon.com/Ordeal-Change-Eric-Hoffer/dp/1933435100


Exactly right! And nowhere is this phenomenon of resistance to change more prevalent than in road cycling. A constant reminder that being nostalgic and preserving tradition only works up until the point when it turns political. Queue Gianni Bugno and his merry band of CPA "discs will kill you" goon squad. To this day most of the elite PT riders who you would think, even I thought, would have many d-brake test/train/race miles in by now.. simply don't.

Funny thing about nostalgia, ahem! [sarc-coughing]. After I wrote that last post on Sunday off the hook comes the 1998 Colnago MasterXLight for a spin. Campagnolo Record/Chorus 10s mix...check, Ambrosio Nemesis rims laced to Record hubs with CX-Rays wrapped in fresh Vittoria Corsa tubulars....check, check, check. Still one of the best riding bikes I've ever owned in the last 30 years. A telepathic technical descender too, rim brakes and all.
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Re:

23 Aug 2017 22:40

Alpe d'Huez wrote:Funny because...?


...ok, you had to ask .....

.........well, the original line was........"....kinda funny that you trot out Hoffer to back-stop your manifesto, uhhhh, statement "....because when I came up with manifesto a light bulb popped on that illuminated something that I thought was ironically funny....you see, Hoffer's book was a major influence on Ted Kaczynski's Manifesto....which would have led to some silly warning about being careful about the company you keep but I canned that and watered the whole thing down to what I then posted......

Cheers
Last edited by blutto on 24 Aug 2017 02:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

24 Aug 2017 01:55

Bustedknuckle wrote:PelOton, please. Disc brakes are more powerful and have superior modulation but group to group, disc brakes are heavier, more expensive and more complicated to install/setup. In addition, no such thing as 'upgrading' your present rig...new bike complete required. Also 'superior' implies there is something inherently wrong with caliper brakes on aluminum rims, function-wise. As in they are weak, flexy, not effective. So....imho, each rider/consumer needs to determine the 'are they worth it to me' calculus. For me they aren't.


Since you retired 4 years ago much has changed. Seems your former mechanic has turned the shop into the disc brake "groad" oasis of the Republic. Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis :lol:
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Re:

24 Aug 2017 08:48

Alpe d'Huez wrote:As I see it, the only, and I mean only, reason not to go disc brakes, is if you are a total weight weenie, building a bike for something like the Mt. Washington hill climb, a race with no weight restrictions. Then, I get it, just one, single, front caliper brake will do it. A disc would be a waste for the entire 7.6 miles you'd be riding up that thing.

I should also note, if you're on a budget, and can't afford discs, and are happy with your caliper brakes and they work, I'm good with that. Keep on riding, and save your money. That's never a bad thing.

Otherwise, it's the same irrational resistance we saw from cyclists about everything from aero bars, to clipless pedals, to helmets even.


Yep... I don't own a rim brake bike anymore (excluding my l'eroica bike, which I don't ride anymore... been there, done that). MTB, gravel, road, city all are disc. Innovation plus technology has usually been good developments.

Don't own an aluminum rim wheel anymore either...
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

24 Aug 2017 13:35

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:PelOton, please. Disc brakes are more powerful and have superior modulation but group to group, disc brakes are heavier, more expensive and more complicated to install/setup. In addition, no such thing as 'upgrading' your present rig...new bike complete required. Also 'superior' implies there is something inherently wrong with caliper brakes on aluminum rims, function-wise. As in they are weak, flexy, not effective. So....imho, each rider/consumer needs to determine the 'are they worth it to me' calculus. For me they aren't.


Since you retired 4 years ago much has changed. Seems your former mechanic has turned the shop into the disc brake "groad" oasis of the Republic. Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis :lol:


His shop, he can do whatever he wants and has done so. Moots, yes even with discs, are a-flyin out the door..good for him. Only somebody who wishes to go outta biz would not recognize discs on road/Groad/enthusiast's bikes are here..BUT, even tho the 'market', as daily changing as it is, says all discs all the time(kinda like carbon) and very few would opt for a non disc Moots these days(altho Jim sells quite a lot of these), they are still more expensive, heavier and more complicated to set up compared to non disc group..say an Ultegra mechanical group. BUT iffa ya want disc stuff, step right up and show your CC#.

BUT so what, I would have thought the UCI would have figured the disc BS out and there would be many, many, most, all(?) discs in the pelOton in 2017..but at Giro, TdF, Vuelta right now, P-R, Flanders, blah, bah..how many riders sported disc chubbies?

Quod ultra haec mutantur, eo magis quod eadem manere :rolleyes:
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

24 Aug 2017 14:10

Bustedknuckle wrote:BUT so what, I would have thought the UCI would have figured the disc BS out and there would be many, many, most, all(?) discs in the pelOton in 2017..but at Giro, TdF, Vuelta right now, P-R, Flanders, blah, bah..how many riders sported disc chubbies?


I don't think anybody really cares whether the pros adopt disc or not besides the manufactures. Makes for fantastic drama tho, doesn't it?
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24 Aug 2017 20:44

That's about all there is to it, as I see it, drama. People seem to hold pros in this level of sage wisdom on all things cycling. And yet, the same "too heavy", "will slice you up like OJ", "don't really work better", irrational arguments somehow don't apply to CX, or MTB racing of any sort where they are prominent. Nor to when pros like Marcel Kittel use them. The paranoid resistance remains.

As to not being able to afford to make the switch from a current bike, that is something I do understand. As I said before, if someone doesn't have the money, and are okay with the rim brakes you have now, so be it. I understand that. Get out and ride whatever bike you have!

As to Kaczynski, I'm not sure what to say. Insane genius. But he wasn't even in the news when Hoffer wrote his works.
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Re:

27 Aug 2017 17:14

Your point is wildly accurate, Alpe. We've already been through decades of disc brake drama with mtb and cx, and when enough people got rides in the skepticism and cynicism disappears. History has a strange way of repeating itself.
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06 Nov 2017 05:56

I know that I'm about 4 months late to the party on this, but just laughed my *** off when I saw Pinarello have launched the F10 Disc.
Good one Fausto!
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