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Disc brakes on road bikes...

Which tyres for Paris-Roubaix? Whose time trial bike is fastest? Suspension mountain bikes or singlespeeders? Talk equipment here.

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Re:

15 Jul 2017 23:47

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Blutto, I see you haven't changed a bit. To clarify you smelled rat by Kittle's bike choice, and I called bulschidt on it. Nice thesis and I stand behind all of it, including the fact that you've been one of the most difficult members of this forum to babysit. Glad it's not my job anymore. What is it about this place that the higher the post count the more mentally unstable? Post reported for publishing private emails. Later.


....sorry to disappoint but nothing private was published, it was all copied from various forum thread posts....the one thread link from which the majority of the bits were taken is included in the post and the only one other bit is copied from the thread that notifies the forum about suspended members....still having a bit of a problem with the truth eh...makes for a good story though, but then that is what good shilling, errr, marketing is all about isn't it....

....and the insinuation of mental instability eh ....nice touch, that....kinda surprising you are even stooping lower than our last "encounter"....uhhh, maybe not ( you were after all a real special piece of work the first time thru )...

Cheers
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Re: Re:

16 Jul 2017 15:34

blutto wrote:
Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Blutto, I see you haven't changed a bit. To clarify you smelled rat by Kittle's bike choice, and I called bulschidt on it. Nice thesis and I stand behind all of it, including the fact that you've been one of the most difficult members of this forum to babysit. Glad it's not my job anymore. What is it about this place that the higher the post count the more mentally unstable? Post reported for publishing private emails. Later.


....sorry to disappoint but nothing private was published, it was all copied from various forum thread posts....the one thread link from which the majority of the bits were taken is included in the post and the only one other bit is copied from the thread that notifies the forum about suspended members....still having a bit of a problem with the truth eh...makes for a good story though, but then that is what good shilling, errr, marketing is all about isn't it....

....and the insinuation of mental instability eh ....nice touch, that....kinda surprising you are even stooping lower than our last "encounter"....uhhh, maybe not ( you were after all a real special piece of work the first time thru )...

Cheers


Your post was a reaction to perceived chicanery by the industry because you thought Kittel was playing a shell game with his bike choice for the day. BS. Then you proceeded to show me how truly unstable you are by pulling an argument we had 8 years ago that reference meetings I was in 20 years ago now. Whining 8 years later because I banned you for being yourself? How utterly creepy.

Care to get back on topic, or are you not done showing everyone that you're emotionally bankrupt and like to hold grudges?
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Re: Re:

16 Jul 2017 16:40

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:
blutto wrote:
Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Blutto, I see you haven't changed a bit. To clarify you smelled rat by Kittle's bike choice, and I called bulschidt on it. Nice thesis and I stand behind all of it, including the fact that you've been one of the most difficult members of this forum to babysit. Glad it's not my job anymore. What is it about this place that the higher the post count the more mentally unstable? Post reported for publishing private emails. Later.


....sorry to disappoint but nothing private was published, it was all copied from various forum thread posts....the one thread link from which the majority of the bits were taken is included in the post and the only one other bit is copied from the thread that notifies the forum about suspended members....still having a bit of a problem with the truth eh...makes for a good story though, but then that is what good shilling, errr, marketing is all about isn't it....

....and the insinuation of mental instability eh ....nice touch, that....kinda surprising you are even stooping lower than our last "encounter"....uhhh, maybe not ( you were after all a real special piece of work the first time thru )...

Cheers


Your post was a reaction to perceived chicanery by the industry because you thought Kittel was playing a shell game with his bike choice for the day. BS. Then you proceeded to show me how truly unstable you are by pulling an argument we had 8 years ago that reference meetings I was in 20 years ago now. Whining 8 years later because I banned you for being yourself? How utterly creepy.

Care to get back on topic, or are you not done showing everyone that you're emotionally bankrupt and like to hold grudges?


....just thought, one, it was interesting that someone who was poo-poo-ing people for seeing market scams was in fact in the business of not only coming up with market scams but being rather feckless about it by laughing at the rubes he had hoodwinked, and two, it would be helpful to show who leading the charge to shill the latest best bike thing ever ....as for holding a grudge, it was more the case of having a memory of something truly and monumentally hypocritical, things like that do stand out....your performance in that thread, punctuated by using your mod position to shut me up, was real special, what can I say....now I realize, given the way you seem to roll, that isn't something you would consider unusual, but that says more about you than it could ever say about me...

....so we can now add emotionally bankrupt, and utterly creepy to the insinuation of mental instability...cool ( though I do have an etiquette question...would I be considered gauche if I raised your emotionally bankrupt with a sanctimonious prat and your utterly creep with a screaming hypocrite....or is that simply beyond the pale ?...) ....but by all means keep shooting, fireworks are, at the very least, entertaining ...

...wondering how did your selling of the bs story about private messages go with the mods...?....methinks these guys proved a whole lot smarter than you assumed ( and they really are btw, and that aptly demonstrated by their performance over the past long while ) and they saw thru the crap...read, not everyone falls for a facile and transparent scam....you may believe you are a Svengali but I fear that may just a figment of an overactive imagination ( apparently a common problem in the marketing manipulation biz )....

....and before I leave one more wee thing....you wrote "reference meetings I was in 20 years ago"....so let me paraphrase that a bit to put the meta message into sharper relief....."yeah I lied, but that was 20 years ago, and I have not lied since, honest, and you can trust on that, so about disc brakes "....so please excuse me if I exercise a bit of prudence and use some caution when dealing with your new "honest" side and your disc brake narrative....

Cheers
Last edited by blutto on 17 Jul 2017 13:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Re:

16 Jul 2017 17:00

The decision to ban someone isn't a solo action, has to be approved. At least that was the protocol back then. If anyone had an objection to it then it would've been handled differently. The general consensus was that you should leave for a bit and I had no problem hitting the eject button. Still not sorry after almost a decade.

...... and you still have yet to explain the Kittel smoke screen. Shame(typical).
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Re: Re:

16 Jul 2017 20:21

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:The decision to ban someone isn't a solo action, has to be approved. At least that was the protocol back then. If anyone had an objection to it then it would've been handled differently. The general consensus was that you should leave for a bit and I had no problem hitting the eject button. Still not sorry after almost a decade.

...... and you still have yet to explain the Kittel smoke screen. Shame(typical).


....ok...the Kittle thingee reprised....Kittle didn't use discs in a situation where their advertised advantages would be most apparent ( mountain descending in the wet )....which even to the casual observer would/should/could raise reasonable doubt about the veracity of claims for disc brakes....I pointed that out...and yeah waxed poetic about it...the nerve, eh....bad blutto,bad....

...and then there is this comment from another forum....

Mountain stages - rim brakes
Flat stages - disc brakes

A simple proof that the impact of disc brakes in Kittel's success is not bigger than the impact of his socks


...and...

kgt Or "Why are people using disc brakes in the Tour in stages where no braking is needed?"

never been a truer statement in this thread so far, no one using discs in the mountains or classic type stages. even in the flats it's extremely minimal, looks like a promotion exercise to me.

A lot of Europeans see them as ugly looking pizza knifes with a sight of an inexperienced rider who dos not have the experience to brake properly, they also see them as a possible danger to avoid especially down mountains because of that reason...I'm afraid that's how it's viewed in Europe @moment.


...as for the, it wasn't me. it was us, that banned me claim...that would carry a lot more weight if you hadn't threatened me with a ban beforehand ( read, its just inconceivable that the threat came from "us", it, in point of fact, most likely came from just you....and yeah, "us" may have finally acted on it....which, as I said in that thread, is an action that basically ends up damming everyone involved....)....and oh almost forgot there is this..... " because I banned you for being yourself "....so speaking of banning by committee, try as I may I can't find a "we" in there, it is most definitely reduced to just "I", and a very proud one at that....and banned for being myself ? #AYFKM !? don't know what that means, like I'm still myself and I'm still here, or was the "can't be blutto on this forum" rule been rescinded for being terminally idiotic....please, at least for your own sake, try to keep the story at least half-way straight, or is making stuff up as required just the way you usually roll....and I'm supposed to be the mess.... :rolleyes: ...

....ok, at the end of the day you're still not sorry, well, neither am I....oh well, adrenalin levels were raised, but more significantly, no blood was spilled....just another day in the salt mines eh....you shilling $h!t in a bag, and me calling you on it...

....and so as long as I have your undivided attention, here is a question ( to as much as anything get this thread back on the rails cause I've said everything I want to say about our tiff ), how would you rate the new Campy disc brake system ?....am hoping it's a real game changer, because if it is, the used market will soon be flooded mit lotsa high end bikes equipped with those "decidedly" inferior rim brakes...me, I'm fancying a Colnago C60 with low miles and an SR grouppo in RSWH....and pricing will be delicious....

Cheers
Last edited by blutto on 17 Jul 2017 11:55, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Disc brakes on road bikes...

16 Jul 2017 21:07

Which takes me to the final point - brakes do one thing and one thing only - convert kinetic energy into heat. They surely do not stop you, because your brakes can work perfectly but if you are on ice, it really won't matter. Your TIRES stop you. So the discussion about the advantages and disadvantages of one technology over another boil down to something simple - heat management. For the vast majority of cyclists not riding in the rain, there is no advantage for either technology; properly modulated neither will stop you in a shorter distance than your tires allow. Riding in muddy or rainy conditions degrades rim braking simply because the condition of the disc (rim) is unpredictable so accurate timing for braking events is difficult, if not impossible. If you are descending mountain passes and need to modulate your speed because you are not on a closed course and/or you have gear with you (think touring/camping) then discs present and advantage because they will not impact other systems (tire/rim) adversely. But I seriously doubt the "need" for disc brakes when all they are doing is taking those precious watts you have trained so hard to produce and turning them into heat to be dissipated into the atmosphere
.

....to the bolded....the main advantage discs have is allowing poseurs to parade around on their spiffy deep dish carbon clincher wheels and not risk serious injury when their inability to brake properly comes into play....

....and here is a point of view youse may want to consider....you don't actually brake with your brakes you brake with your tires....its what you call a where the rubber meets the road kinda reasoning....just sayin' eh...

Cheers
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17 Jul 2017 13:54

Kittel, or any Specialized rider at the tour who grabs a Tarmac for the day is going to be on the new SL6 that was launched right before the Tour start. There won't be a disc version of that bike until Q1 of next year, so this grand conspiracy you were so eager to point out.... isn't.
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Re:

17 Jul 2017 14:10

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Kittel, nor any Specialized rider at the tour who grabs a Tarmac for the day is going to be on the new SL6 that was launched right before the Tour start. There won't be a disc version of that bike until Q1 of next year, so this grand conspiracy you were so eager to point out.... isn't.


....one of the underlying themes in the selling of disc brakes is as a safety feature....think of the serious injury you'll prevent by using disc brakes, and lets not even think of the millions of lives that will be saved , or the resulting mob of fatherless children etc etc etc....a safety feature especially important in fast technical descents and especially in same when rain is involved....so off goes Kittel into what becomes a crash fest of epic proportions with his life saving disc brakes left at home....hmmm....reality is a pound or so of weight is more important ( which btw is approximately one water bottle )....

...so the question is...is Kittel an absolute idiot, or does he think they really aren't that critical in this very very critical situation....and btw he does have experience with them ( read, he is not a newbie fred who knows nothing about riding...like he has more than a passing acquaintance with the concept of riding in seriously dangerous conditions ( probably more than both of us put together and then a whole lot more ))....

...just sayin' eh...

Cheers
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Re: Re:

18 Jul 2017 02:10

blutto wrote:
Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Kittel, or any Specialized rider at the tour who grabs a Tarmac for the day is going to be on the new SL6 that was launched right before the Tour start. There won't be a disc version of that bike until Q1 of next year, so this grand conspiracy you were so eager to point out.... isn't.


....one of the underlying themes in the selling of disc brakes is as a safety feature....think of the serious injury you'll prevent by using disc brakes, and lets not even think of the millions of lives that will be saved , or the resulting mob of fatherless children etc etc etc....a safety feature especially important in fast technical descents and especially in same when rain is involved....so off goes Kittel into what becomes a crash fest of epic proportions with his life saving disc brakes left at home....hmmm....reality is a pound or so of weight is more important ( which btw is approximately one water bottle )....

...so the question is...is Kittel an absolute idiot, or does he think they really aren't that critical in this very very critical situation....and btw he does have experience with them ( read, he is not a newbie fred who knows nothing about riding...like he has more than a passing acquaintance with the concept of riding in seriously dangerous conditions ( probably more than both of us put together and then a whole lot more ))....

...just sayin' eh...

Cheers


Boy, what imagination you have!! What dramatic flair!! :rolleyes:

Curious... How did you miss the part about SL6 debut, disc version next year?

You should hit up @marcelkittel on any social media and send him that exact message.. "ARE YOU AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT?" Please post his reply, I'm dying to hear it.
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Re: Re:

18 Jul 2017 11:15

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:
blutto wrote:
Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:Kittel, or any Specialized rider at the tour who grabs a Tarmac for the day is going to be on the new SL6 that was launched right before the Tour start. There won't be a disc version of that bike until Q1 of next year, so this grand conspiracy you were so eager to point out.... isn't.


....one of the underlying themes in the selling of disc brakes is as a safety feature....think of the serious injury you'll prevent by using disc brakes, and lets not even think of the millions of lives that will be saved , or the resulting mob of fatherless children etc etc etc....a safety feature especially important in fast technical descents and especially in same when rain is involved....so off goes Kittel into what becomes a crash fest of epic proportions with his life saving disc brakes left at home....hmmm....reality is a pound or so of weight is more important ( which btw is approximately one water bottle )....

...so the question is...is Kittel an absolute idiot, or does he think they really aren't that critical in this very very critical situation....and btw he does have experience with them ( read, he is not a newbie fred who knows nothing about riding...like he has more than a passing acquaintance with the concept of riding in seriously dangerous conditions ( probably more than both of us put together and then a whole lot more ))....

...just sayin' eh...

Cheers


Boy, what imagination you have!! What dramatic flair!! :rolleyes:

Curious... How did you miss the part about SL6 debut, disc version next year?

You should hit up @marcelkittel on any social media and send him that exact message.. "ARE YOU AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT?" Please post his reply, I'm dying to hear it.


....to the bolded....awww shucks, I didn't think you'd notice, that is so sweet of you....you're such a peach !...

....now why on earth should I do that when the evidence in fact clearly shows the latter....drawing on his experience with disc brakes he decided that disc brakes were worth less than the extra 1 lb of weight he would have to carry up the hill if he used them ( and this even in conditions that the shills claim confer huge advantages to users of meat-cutters, errr, disc brakes )....

....no Marcel is a very smart boy, he pocketed the appearance money, but where the rubber really hit the road went with the smart solution....yeah that is a bit transparent and mercenary but hey this is the circus, errr, professional bike racing....

....the conclusion is pretty obvious....or should be to most sentient beings....like, I explained it to two blue jays at the bird feeder this morning and even they got it ( and they are renown for being goofiest birds in the bush )....so what exactly is your problem ?...like on the surface you seem to be smarter than a blue jay....it couldn't be something like "appearance" money could it ?...

Cheers
Last edited by blutto on 18 Jul 2017 14:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

18 Jul 2017 13:49

blutto wrote:
....the conclusion is pretty obvious..



Yes it is. Since you step foot in here your intention was never to have a discussion, just showed up purely to flame bait.
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Re: Re:

18 Jul 2017 14:02

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:
blutto wrote:
....the conclusion is pretty obvious..



Yes it is. Since you step foot in here your intention was never to have a discussion, just showed up purely to flame bait.


....whatever gets you thru the night...

Cheers
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18 Jul 2017 14:19

This edition of the Tour there aren't any disc versions of the new SL6 for Kittel or any Specialized team to ride because they don't exist yet. Kind of an important tidbit to consider, too bad you refuse to pick up on that. But nooo, you're not flaming. What was I thinking.. Pffft!
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Re:

18 Jul 2017 15:45

Giuseppe Magnetico wrote:This edition of the Tour there aren't any disc versions of the new SL6 for Kittel or any Specialized team to ride because they don't exist yet. Kind of an important tidbit to consider, too bad you refuse to pick up on that. But nooo, you're not flaming. What was I thinking.. Pffft!


....so let me get this straight, the bike he wins stages on is incapable of climbing and descending and he is then forced to use a bike that then forces him to leave his life-saving disc brakes at home ( gee that doesn't reflect well on Specialized does it...maybe they should think of designing fully functional bikes eh... ) ....could just be me but that seems like a pretty thin reed to hang your story on ( like I do realize you are madly scrambling to spin this, but come on, at least try to keep it remotely believable )....

Cheers
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18 Jul 2017 15:46

Right, this is getting locked until we decide what to do.
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21 Jul 2017 14:00

The thread is open again. Lets not see a repeat of that please.
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22 Jul 2017 03:05

All charged animus aside, I'm confused: is the argument that the bicycling industry doesn't run its own models and psychologies of planned obsolescence to keep ahead of all the "traps" that brought down larger industries of monopoly capital some years ago.

If the answer is of course it does, then regardless of actual improvements wouldn't this warrant some periodic skepticism of how the whole "package" (as opposed to part) begins to circulate?
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Re:

22 Jul 2017 18:46

aphronesis wrote:All charged animus aside, I'm confused: is the argument that the bicycling industry doesn't run its own models and psychologies of planned obsolescence to keep ahead of all the "traps" that brought down larger industries of monopoly capital some years ago.

If the answer is of course it does, then regardless of actual improvements wouldn't this warrant some periodic skepticism of how the whole "package" (as opposed to part) begins to circulate?


The disc brake debate has nothing to do with planned obsolescence at all, has everything to do with "actual improvements" of the system that it's replacing. Not sure about the "skepticism" side of this. The consumer has the choice right now to go test ride with no financial commitment and make their own minds up, and they also have the choice to stay with rim brakes if that's their jam, or keep their decade old whatever running. But the longer the apprehension over a brake system, the less choices there are going to be for rim brake versions down the road for new model year purchases.
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22 Jul 2017 19:17

Not following your last sentence back to your first sentence.

Skepticism: most consumers don't show up to a test ride w/o some buzz in their ear.
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Re:

22 Jul 2017 19:33

aphronesis wrote:Not following your last sentence back to your first sentence.
What's so hard to follow. Was going from 32 hole eyeletted box section rims to low spoke ct aero carbon planned obsolescence? Or how about square taper bb to pressfit?

Skepticism: most consumers don't show up to a test ride w/o some buzz in their ear.


Sure, obviously. How does anything come to market without some buzz? It's up to you to sort it out to see if it's a path you want to go down. If not, oh well.
Last edited by Giuseppe Magnetico on 22 Jul 2017 19:55, edited 1 time in total.
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