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Lynskey Titanium Frames.

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Lynskey Titanium Frames.

11 Jul 2017 14:01

Any comments on Lynskey Ti frames??
They're going pretty damn cheap on Chain Reaction right now...some at 40% discount!!

used to have an incredible rep....building for Lightspeed amongst others....both brands seem to have faded a bit.

I'm a big fan of Ti and considering building up a 2nd road rig in Ti

Worth a look or best to avoid??
Not a big fan of buying sight unseen or sized up correctly, but for that sort of $$ I'd roll the dice.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/nz/en/road-frames?f=2259
User avatar JackRabbitSlims
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11 Jul 2017 15:17

They have always interested me, if I ever replaced my Genesis they'd be on the list. Looks like 2016 frames on sale so I'm guessing it's just stock clearing. Maybe CRC got what was left in the warehouse for cheap while Lynskey cleared last years stock?
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User avatar King Boonen
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11 Jul 2017 16:06

I've owned a Lynskey Peloton, which was their lowest costing TI bike at the time, for 4 seasons I and I love it, it's the best bike I've ever owned and I've owned at least 12 bikes over the years and still have 6 of them. The Peloton new brother would be the R150 though the R150 version without disk brake provisions and has swayed seat stays. I got my bike as a complete bike through Adrenalin Bikes which still sells Lynskey, but through Adrenalin I could swap parts and only pay the difference in the cost between the two parts, so I swapped the Lynskey fork for a Enve 2.0 and only paid $150 more, the bike came with all 105 but I swapped the rear derailleur to Ultegra for about $32 more, and I swapped the low end FSA headset for Cane Creek 110 which only cost me about $65 more, the original wheels were 30mm deep black Shimano RS500 wheels which I swapped for 35mm silver RS500 at no cost, and finally I swapped the standard Shimano cable to DA9000 cables which cost me about $15 more. I also got some odds and ends but those don't apply to the bike mechanicals.

The bikes you're looking at on Chain Reaction Cycles is just a frame only, no fork or components which by the time you hang components you'll pay a lot more vs one that comes ready to ride. Which is why I like Adrenalin the best because they are huge riders themselves, they know what questions to ask to make sure you don't get overpriced parts that you don't need like DA vs 105 if you don't race there is no need for DA. Like I said before you can swap parts to suit your needs as long as you do it before they send the bike to you. In my case the guy recommended staying with the 105 mostly but to go with Ultegra rear and the DA cables because combined they will make the whole system feel like DA, which they do because I can't tell any difference between the DA and 105, and the Ultegra rear had longer lasting bushings. Also he recommended the CC 110 headset and the Enve 2.0 because the fork was better suited for street riding, and the headset had extra surface area vs others to ensure that the compressive junction would never get damaged nor damage the CF steerer tube on the Enve 2.0.
froze
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Re:

11 Jul 2017 17:44

froze wrote:I've owned a Lynskey Peloton, which was their lowest costing TI bike at the time, for 4 seasons I and I love it, it's the best bike I've ever owned and I've owned at least 12 bikes over the years and still have 6 of them. The Peloton new brother would be the R150 though the R150 version without disk brake provisions and has swayed seat stays. I got my bike as a complete bike through Adrenalin Bikes which still sells Lynskey, but through Adrenalin I could swap parts and only pay the difference in the cost between the two parts, so I swapped the Lynskey fork for a Enve 2.0 and only paid $150 more, the bike came with all 105 but I swapped the rear derailleur to Ultegra for about $32 more, and I swapped the low end FSA headset for Cane Creek 110 which only cost me about $65 more, the original wheels were 30mm deep black Shimano RS500 wheels which I swapped for 35mm silver RS500 at no cost, and finally I swapped the standard Shimano cable to DA9000 cables which cost me about $15 more. I also got some odds and ends but those don't apply to the bike mechanicals.

The bikes you're looking at on Chain Reaction Cycles is just a frame only, no fork or components which by the time you hang components you'll pay a lot more vs one that comes ready to ride. Which is why I like Adrenalin the best because they are huge riders themselves, they know what questions to ask to make sure you don't get overpriced parts that you don't need like DA vs 105 if you don't race there is no need for DA. Like I said before you can swap parts to suit your needs as long as you do it before they send the bike to you. In my case the guy recommended staying with the 105 mostly but to go with Ultegra rear and the DA cables because combined they will make the whole system feel like DA, which they do because I can't tell any difference between the DA and 105, and the Ultegra rear had longer lasting bushings. Also he recommended the CC 110 headset and the Enve 2.0 because the fork was better suited for street riding, and the headset had extra surface area vs others to ensure that the compressive junction would never get damaged nor damage the CF steerer tube on the Enve 2.0.


Thanks for the reply.

As per the title of the thread..."Lynskey Ti Frame"

I run DA 9000 on my Custom Ti Baum - I quite like it :)......Campy Record before that, quite like that also :)

If you think DA cables turn 105 into DA - you've been jerked real hard.....with both hands. Suggest you go back to the "Huge Riding" guys at Adrenaline (who ever the f@&k they are) and tell them they're full of Schitt!

Nothing against 105 or Ulteg....I ran 9 speed Ulteg on an Eddy Merckx for years and loved it.......but saying a top shelf set of cables makes it feel like DA is just silly.....imho, ofc.

Yes, Enve make a nice fork. Chris King headsets on my bikes.
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Re: Re:

12 Jul 2017 01:16

JackRabbitSlims wrote:
froze wrote:I've owned a Lynskey Peloton, which was their lowest costing TI bike at the time, for 4 seasons I and I love it, it's the best bike I've ever owned and I've owned at least 12 bikes over the years and still have 6 of them. The Peloton new brother would be the R150 though the R150 version without disk brake provisions and has swayed seat stays. I got my bike as a complete bike through Adrenalin Bikes which still sells Lynskey, but through Adrenalin I could swap parts and only pay the difference in the cost between the two parts, so I swapped the Lynskey fork for a Enve 2.0 and only paid $150 more, the bike came with all 105 but I swapped the rear derailleur to Ultegra for about $32 more, and I swapped the low end FSA headset for Cane Creek 110 which only cost me about $65 more, the original wheels were 30mm deep black Shimano RS500 wheels which I swapped for 35mm silver RS500 at no cost, and finally I swapped the standard Shimano cable to DA9000 cables which cost me about $15 more. I also got some odds and ends but those don't apply to the bike mechanicals.

The bikes you're looking at on Chain Reaction Cycles is just a frame only, no fork or components which by the time you hang components you'll pay a lot more vs one that comes ready to ride. Which is why I like Adrenalin the best because they are huge riders themselves, they know what questions to ask to make sure you don't get overpriced parts that you don't need like DA vs 105 if you don't race there is no need for DA. Like I said before you can swap parts to suit your needs as long as you do it before they send the bike to you. In my case the guy recommended staying with the 105 mostly but to go with Ultegra rear and the DA cables because combined they will make the whole system feel like DA, which they do because I can't tell any difference between the DA and 105, and the Ultegra rear had longer lasting bushings. Also he recommended the CC 110 headset and the Enve 2.0 because the fork was better suited for street riding, and the headset had extra surface area vs others to ensure that the compressive junction would never get damaged nor damage the CF steerer tube on the Enve 2.0.


Thanks for the reply.

As per the title of the thread..."Lynskey Ti Frame"

I run DA 9000 on my Custom Ti Baum - I quite like it :)......Campy Record before that, quite like that also :)

If you think DA cables turn 105 into DA - you've been jerked real hard.....with both hands. Suggest you go back to the "Huge Riding" guys at Adrenaline (who ever the f@&k they are) and tell them they're full of Schitt!

Nothing against 105 or Ulteg....I ran 9 speed Ulteg on an Eddy Merckx for years and loved it.......but saying a top shelf set of cables makes it feel like DA is just silly.....imho, ofc.

Yes, Enve make a nice fork. Chris King headsets on my bikes.


Actually I wasn't jerked at all about the 9000 cables, in fact I did some research BEFORE I inquired with Adrenalin and that's what the research pointed to. Nowhere did I say that the DA cables turned them into DA I said they make them feel like DA. Also I was able to compare several bikes equipped with DA, Ultegra, and 105, and the my 105 with Ultegra rear and DA cables makes the whole system feel as smooth as DA...sorry, but that is my opinion. Not only that but the DA cables are in the middle of the 4th season with no signs of wear...of course that may have happened with regular Shimano cables.

I'm sorry but Adrenalin set my bike up perfectly for me (note I said for me and not for you or anyone else), so I don't really appreciate the colored metaphors concerning them, you need to keep it more civil because all that nonsense you expressed makes you out to be the jerk. And yes Adrenalin uses only pro racing level mechanics for not only mechanics but for sales and supervisory staff all with the minimal experience of 15 years from any single individual, some have become editors of such magazines like Decline, Mountain Bike, Mountain Biking, and Velo News, some have become full time pro mechanics, and some have opened their own shops, some have raced the 24 hours of Moab not to mention other 12 and 24 hour races, and other races; the shop deals only with higher end bikes with a focus on titanium bikes but do sell other materials as well. Adrenalin is owned by Jim Lacy who use to own Moots! http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Jim-Lacy/459575101 So I think I'll take the recommendations of Adrenalin Bikes employees far before I would remotely consider your advice.

Call me crazy.
froze
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12 Jul 2017 04:20

oooooh, Moots........I like Moots, nice bikes!!
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12 Jul 2017 16:47

I own a classic Eddy Merckx TiAx, which was made by Litespeed in 1999 when the Lynskey brothers ran Litespeed. This is probably the best bike I ever owned, or rode. I don't ride it anymore for various reasons, mostly it's near race geometry, and I don't ride like that anymore - I'm middle aged and like endurance/comfy bikes. It's also like taking out a classic Ferrari. :)

The Lynskey's left Litespeed in 2000, and sold their majority share in the company, for numerous reasons. It wasn't until a few years later that Lynskey bikes started up, not too far from Litespeed, in the Chatanooga, TN area. By all counts, and I mean every single person you talk to, Lynskey bikes are of the highest possible quality, and you're going to get great support from them, and the Lynskey community.

Here's a video clip Outside did on Lynskey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-A2xDYE0ds&spfreload=10

And the Gravel Cyclist guys visited them just a couple weeks ago. They also previously visited Litespeed, if you want to compare the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJDea5mSUJY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XIgz4jwyQY

Having ridden bikes by Litespeed, and Seven as well, they are all pretty similar, and all high quality. You can find a lighter carbon frame, you can find something more vertically comfortable, more laterally stiff, etc. etc. But there's something fantastic and timeless about quality titanium bikes. I think the ideal material for a gravel bike too, but that's another story for another thread.

If you're up for putting together your own bike, and from what you can read and see the geometry can be made to work for you, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Lynskey for a heartbeat.
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12 Jul 2017 17:16

^^
Thanks Alpe, great post & thanks for the links :)

Although not Ti, this little beauty has been tickling my fancy also recently.....http://cinelli.it/it/prodotti/xcr/
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12 Jul 2017 23:47

Jack, that Cinelli is a beautiful bike that's for sure; one can go crazy looking at bikes! The Cinelli is made of stainless steel which is rust proof like titanium, both are strong, stainless steel could be repaired easier, but once you get to that point it may be wiser to get a new frame, but if you're riding in some weird place and a frame breaks Joe who owns a Little Joe's Dirty Garage will have a welding machine and can fix the steel but not the titanium. Stainless steel Reynolds 953, would be the strongest tubing material you can make a bike into however S steel would also be the most expensive and the heaviest of the two; the Columbus tubing and other S Steel tubesets are lower in strength than TI. Reynolds 953 is one tough tubeset, if you are looking into stainless steel than look for 953 and not the Columbus, even though the Cinelli is a nice looking bike.

Speaking of titanium, Lynskey does have very good prices compared to other TI manufactures, but Bikes Direct has the Motobecane TI line of bikes, and while you can't substitute parts on them they do represent the best value in titanium bikes on the market. I have two friends who have TI bikes, one has a very expensive Serotta, and the other got the high end Motobecane, I rode those two bikes a lot before I got the Lynskey, and quite frankly while the Serotta was the nicest riding of the two, including mine, due to the swayed seat stays, it also didn't have the sharpness in handling, or the aggressiveness when hammered on as the Moto or mine. I would have bought the Moto but when I went to pull the trigger they were out of stock, I emailed the owner I think and he said they would be in stock in 2 weeks, 2 weeks came and went, he then said in a month, a month came and went, I waited a year and half and they never came in which made me believe they weren't going to get them anymore so I got the Lynskey. The Moto is a bit heavier by about 1/2 pound from their stated weights which makes it my friends Shimano Dura Ace equipped Moto the same weight as my Lynskey 105 equipped! (not sure if the weights mentioned now are more accurate than they were 7 or 8 years ago). Of course Moto does do some things cheap to bring down the price especially in regards to the wheelset, even their top of the line wheelset is a low end Mavic Ksyrium Elite that retails for under $500 for a wheelset which is on par with my Shimano RS500 wheels I got on my Lynskey, so if you want to improve the bike the wheelset would be the starting point. If mail order doesn't make you squirm, which it shouldn't since most high end custom bikes are mail order, then take a gander at these: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/road_bikes.htm#ti Once you compare the prices you will be shocked; of course you don't get some name like Lynskey that others can ooh and ahh over but you won't care what name the bike is while riding it, this does mean also that the resale value won't be as high as other names, but again you're not paying anywhere near the prices of the others.
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Re:

13 Jul 2017 08:13

froze wrote:...however S steel would also be the most expensive and the heaviest of the two...


953 frames are generally lighter than titanium frames that use the standard 3AL-2.5V titanium tubing most builders use. For example a Van Nic Astraeus 54cm frame comes in at 1.77kg while the Genesis 953 Volare was 1.65kg.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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Re: Re:

13 Jul 2017 10:29

King Boonen wrote:
froze wrote:...however S steel would also be the most expensive and the heaviest of the two...


953 frames are generally lighter than titanium frames that use the standard 3AL-2.5V titanium tubing most builders use. For example a Van Nic Astraeus 54cm frame comes in at 1.77kg while the Genesis 953 Volare was 1.65kg.


Typically that's not the case, most TI frames are lighter than most Stainless frames, but there are exceptions, almost everyone thinks that non stainless steel is the heaviest material to build a bike out of, and normally that's true, but Rodriguez Outlaw is made of steel and weighs just 13.5 pounds...that's lighter than a large percentage of carbon fiber bikes on the market and yet in general CF is the lightest material to make a bike out of.

For example Litespeed T1sL is only 1.05kg. So it depends on the manufacture who specs the material as to how thin they want to make the walls, also some manufacturers will quote their medium size frames weights for publication while others will quote their smallest.
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Re: Re:

13 Jul 2017 11:04

froze wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
froze wrote:...however S steel would also be the most expensive and the heaviest of the two...


953 frames are generally lighter than titanium frames that use the standard 3AL-2.5V titanium tubing most builders use. For example a Van Nic Astraeus 54cm frame comes in at 1.77kg while the Genesis 953 Volare was 1.65kg.


Typically that's not the case, most TI frames are lighter than most Stainless frames, but there are exceptions, almost everyone thinks that non stainless steel is the heaviest material to build a bike out of, and normally that's true, but Rodriguez Outlaw is made of steel and weighs just 13.5 pounds...that's lighter than a large percentage of carbon fiber bikes on the market and yet in general CF is the lightest material to make a bike out of.

For example Litespeed T1sL is only 1.05kg. So it depends on the manufacture who specs the material as to how thin they want to make the walls, also some manufacturers will quote their medium size frames weights for publication while others will quote their smallest.


I don't know why you've decided to speak in generalities when I was pretty specific in stating 953 steel. You claimed SS was the most expensive and the heaviest, I was simply pointing out that this is wrong. You're likely wrong about price too. you can get a 953 frame from Saffron for a base price of £1975. To get a Ti frame of a similar weight to that you'll need to pay for something like the Lynskey Helix Pro which £2700.

That Litespeed uses an AL6-4V top tube, possibly other tubes in this material as well to reduce the weight, but few others do. The Lynskey Helix pro uses 6-4 tubing, possibly even for the downtube and I think that comes in around 1.2kg, although I have a friend who bought a Helix frame a couple of years back and it was considerably heavier than expected.

There is no thinking about whether non-stainless steel is the heaviest material, it is.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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Re: Re:

13 Jul 2017 17:15

King Boonen wrote:
froze wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
froze wrote:...however S steel would also be the most expensive and the heaviest of the two...


953 frames are generally lighter than titanium frames that use the standard 3AL-2.5V titanium tubing most builders use. For example a Van Nic Astraeus 54cm frame comes in at 1.77kg while the Genesis 953 Volare was 1.65kg.


Typically that's not the case, most TI frames are lighter than most Stainless frames, but there are exceptions, almost everyone thinks that non stainless steel is the heaviest material to build a bike out of, and normally that's true, but Rodriguez Outlaw is made of steel and weighs just 13.5 pounds...that's lighter than a large percentage of carbon fiber bikes on the market and yet in general CF is the lightest material to make a bike out of.

For example Litespeed T1sL is only 1.05kg. So it depends on the manufacture who specs the material as to how thin they want to make the walls, also some manufacturers will quote their medium size frames weights for publication while others will quote their smallest.


I don't know why you've decided to speak in generalities when I was pretty specific in stating 953 steel. You claimed SS was the most expensive and the heaviest, I was simply pointing out that this is wrong. You're likely wrong about price too. you can get a 953 frame from Saffron for a base price of £1975. To get a Ti frame of a similar weight to that you'll need to pay for something like the Lynskey Helix Pro which £2700.

That Litespeed uses an AL6-4V top tube, possibly other tubes in this material as well to reduce the weight, but few others do. The Lynskey Helix pro uses 6-4 tubing, possibly even for the downtube and I think that comes in around 1.2kg, although I have a friend who bought a Helix frame a couple of years back and it was considerably heavier than expected.

There is no thinking about whether non-stainless steel is the heaviest material, it is.


Non stainless isn't necessarily the heaviest material, I already pointed that out with the Rodriguez Outlaw.

In general TI will be lighter than S Steel, sure you can have a steel tube drawn thin like the Rodriguez but the cost is very high, the same can be done with S Steel and TI; even CF you can have large variable in weights from 19 pounds down. Even Strong says that TI in general will be lighter than steels, see:http://www.strongframes.com/tubing-information/; in addition frame builders at Enigma, Roberts and IF said these things in agreement:

- Yes, a stainless steel frame will end up being marginally lighter than a non-stainless equivalent but it will still be heavier than almost all titanium frames and definitely all carbon frames.

- They are generally made to be stiffer, but that's because they are made that way, not because of an inherent improvement in the material's behaviour.

- The ride quality tends to be harsher than regular steel as a result of the above.

- The longevity of the frame can also be impaired as a result of the design parameters of the frame.

- If you still want a metal frame rather than carbon, then titanium is far superior in almost every respect; it can be as stiff, lighter and longer lasting than the best stainless steel equivalents.

- That said, there is something incredibly alluring about the stainless option and if you want steel, because you like the aesthetics and the image, then stainless is a great option (but you might be far better off with a regular steel frame for 50% less price).

Me here; I'm not sure if I agree with the last two paragraphs of what they said but they're the experts so...

Any company that builds a product that builds from both stainless and titanium will tell you that not only is titanium stronger but it's also lighter which is why titanium is used more than stainless steel in surgical implants. We can go on and on about this but you need to google this stuff since you don't believe what I've said.
froze
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13 Jul 2017 18:22

You pointed out a bike, not a material. You do understand the difference don't you? It really feels like you don't.

I literally gave you an example where SS is lighter than Ti. You were wrong.

Ti alloys are not as strong as some SS and are more ductile. That is why they are used when shaping is required in implants. There are many other reasons Ti is used for certain implants, I know because I'm involved in research in this area so I'll trust that rather than Google thanks.
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
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Re:

13 Jul 2017 19:39

King Boonen wrote:You pointed out a bike, not a material. You do understand the difference don't you? It really feels like you don't.

I literally gave you an example where SS is lighter than Ti. You were wrong.

Ti alloys are not as strong as some SS and are more ductile. That is why they are used when shaping is required in implants. There are many other reasons Ti is used for certain implants, I know because I'm involved in research in this area so I'll trust that rather than Google thanks.


Oh god, I pointed to both, bike and material, I gave you examples you were wrong, I give up, go have your fun.
froze
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13 Jul 2017 20:32

So you don't know the difference, good to know.

JRS, what are you thinking? Going to do it?
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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13 Jul 2017 20:41

That is a very good deal at bikes direct. Motobecane may not have the cachet of Lynskey, but it certainly has the history.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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Re:

13 Jul 2017 21:25

Alpe d'Huez wrote:That is a very good deal at bikes direct. Motobecane may not have the cachet of Lynskey, but it certainly has the history.

All I've ever heard about bikes direct is bad. Is that fair or are they just a big box store that people are expecting too much from?
Vincenzo Nibali:
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Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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13 Jul 2017 21:55

Bikes Direct customer service sucks. Frame warranty, which as far as I could find on the internet there hasn't been any road bike frame failures, there were some MTB failures as almost every builder of TI bikes had when they tried to make a MTB frame and that bike was subsequently "abused" on rough terrain, so Motobecane got out of making TI MTB's as did others. Motobecane/Bikes Direct will void the frame warranty if you remove the decals, so you don't want to go stealth with that bike, or make any frame or fork modifications, and other things like fatigue etc that is common with most other manufactures warranties. I had an Orbea Scandium bike (a brick to ride, hated it) anyway it cracked at the top front of the headtube spreading about 1/2 inch below the headset, I took it to the dealer and ran into a run around with the Orbea rep who took the bike to have it looked at and determined it was crashed thus no coverage, but the dealer argued that was impossible since nothing else on the bike was damaged, after some time period Orbea changed their story to that it broke due to fatigue and wasn't covered, fatigue after just 10,000 miles? so we go around and around with them again with no success, short of getting a lawyer which would have cost me more than the frame there wasn't anything I could do, this process took over a year to finalize. Frame warranties suck big time trying to get anything resolved since all they cover is material and workmanship for life or whatever, so after say 50 years the bike frame breaks at a weld it's fatigue; if a frame is going to break due to workmanship and material it will do so within 90 days. The other issue with frame warranties is in my example I have a Trek lugged steel bike, if after 35 years the brazing fails and the frame comes apart, sure the brazing could be failure of material, and I'm covered for life, problem is they don't make lugged steel bikes anymore, so what will they replace the 2nd from the top of their line of bikes in 84 with? a 2nd from top of the line of their current line? Highly doubtful, I would probably get some stupid cheap bottom of the line trek aluminum frame! Which would not make me happy at all.

Anyway you can read a forum about issues or lack thereof discussing this here: http://forums.mtbr.com/motobecane/motobecane-warranty-policy-588351.html

I did read a couple of years ago a guy put his bike together went to ride it and the chain was bad (non moveable link or two) from the factory which tore off his hanger and derailleur, Bikes Direct sent him a new chain, hanger, and derailleur, but he had to pay to have them put on. I would strongly suggest that if you buy a bike from BD is to assemble the bike yourself, then take it to an LBS BEFORE riding it and let them go through it to make sure there are no problems with the chain, all bearings are lubed, and it's adjusted correctly. The bearing lube thing is important because another person got a bike from BD that the bottom bracket was never lubed at all. Both of these bikes I mentioned were lower end Bikes Direct bikes, I haven't heard that from their top of the line stuff, but I would play it safe.
froze
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Re:

14 Jul 2017 04:07

King Boonen wrote:So you don't know the difference, good to know.

JRS, what are you thinking? Going to do it?


I'd be happy to if and when I find the time.

I'm currently cycle-touring through Europe (on my steel touring rig ;) ) and only picking up Wifi from time to time and for short periods of time....mainly just to check in.

If you're happy to wait a few months, I'll get it done on my return to NZ, otherwise, you're more than qualified :D

Be sure to include Baum. Darren is one of the very few builders who is a master at both Steel and Ti....most builders choose one material to specialise in.....he is a master craftsman in both!!
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