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::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

Which tyres for Paris-Roubaix? Whose time trial bike is fastest? Suspension mountain bikes or singlespeeders? Talk equipment here.

Moderator: Pricey_sky

Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

08 Oct 2016 12:52

Bustedknuckle wrote:...
Not saying they aren't but a 'real' bike shop, a true 'pro' shop, has people that can build wheels. Essential part of the bike mechanic's 'tool bag'..IMHO

----------------------------------
True, but a concern of a good shop is knowing that the wheels are in excellent condition when they deliver them - and using customer supplied used hubs is a worry. What do they tell the customer if/when problems happens.

Rebuilding with used parts is ok if everyone knows and accepts the risks, but for a customer who wants 'do it once and make it good', using new good quality parts (or buying a new factory item) is the most reliable way.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
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Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

08 Oct 2016 16:22

JayKosta wrote:----------------------------------
True, but a concern of a good shop is knowing that the wheels are in excellent condition when they deliver them - and using customer supplied used hubs is a worry. What do they tell the customer if/when problems happens.

Rebuilding with used parts is ok if everyone knows and accepts the risks, but for a customer who wants 'do it once and make it good', using new good quality parts (or buying a new factory item) is the most reliable way.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA


A decent set of hubs will last hundreds of thousands of miles, decades really if taken care of and can be rebuilt many times. The "worry" and "risk" becomes evident when a shop is just winging it. Either by not having a well rounded service department with wheel experience, or helping the customer make the right decisions. 'Do it once and make it good' can be achieved reliably with used parts, the best shops around do it all the time. New doesn't always equate to reliable, or even necessary.
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Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

09 Oct 2016 10:45

JayKosta wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:...
Not saying they aren't but a 'real' bike shop, a true 'pro' shop, has people that can build wheels. Essential part of the bike mechanic's 'tool bag'..IMHO

----------------------------------
True, but a concern of a good shop is knowing that the wheels are in excellent condition when they deliver them - and using customer supplied used hubs is a worry. What do they tell the customer if/when problems happens.

Rebuilding with used parts is ok if everyone knows and accepts the risks, but for a customer who wants 'do it once and make it good', using new good quality parts (or buying a new factory item) is the most reliable way.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA


Hubs, unlike rims and spokes, are simple beasts that last decades. If the 'supplied' hub is in good shape and relaced properly, and the wheel built properly, it just isn't an issue. I saw bigger problems with people bringing in new, but crappy hubs..like low end, often asian ones, with poor design, poor bearings, poor or no adjustment available. Just talking to the customer about the pitfalls of these 'suppled' hubs sufficed in most all cases. BUT I agree..Campag, shimano, DT, WI, others, use the best, along with the best hubs and spokes, for the best, most reliable, wheels.

My point was that in many shops, who say they have 'good mechanics', if they can't build a good wheel..aren't 'good mechanics', IMHO..
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Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

18 Oct 2016 02:11

30 years wheel building and I've never built with the Easton R90 SL rims. I've rebuilt many Velomax (pre Easton) wheels, but never their standalone rim. So anyone with an opinion on these it would be great to hear anything about them.

My initial impressions from their spec sheet leaves me with one criticism; they list max kgf at 122. That's a telling sign the alloy they use is soft or the extrusion is thin. I usually like to get drive side spokes with alu rims to about 140kgf. Go for it, or steer clear?
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Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

18 Oct 2016 10:00

Bustedknuckle wrote:My point was that in many shops, who say they have 'good mechanics', if they can't build a good wheel..aren't 'good mechanics', IMHO..


This is how I judge a shop when it comes to road bikes. With the right tools I can do any job on a bike as well as 90% of mechanics out there. Yes, I'm a bit slower at it as I do it less but the end result is the same.

But not wheels. Even taking my time I can't build as good a wheel as a proper mechanic can. I'm sure I could learn, but it's a job I'm willing to leave to the guys who know about it. Same goes for the choice of wheel parts. I know I've found a good mechanic/builder when I can go in, describe my riding and they know what my options are for a build.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
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Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

20 Oct 2016 13:07

MWC wrote:30 years wheel building and I've never built with the Easton R90 SL rims. I've rebuilt many Velomax (pre Easton) wheels, but never their standalone rim. So anyone with an opinion on these it would be great to hear anything about them.

My initial impressions from their spec sheet leaves me with one criticism; they list max kgf at 122. That's a telling sign the alloy they use is soft or the extrusion is thin. I usually like to get drive side spokes with alu rims to about 140kgf. Go for it, or steer clear?


You tension it to 140kgf and you are asking for a nipple to pull through on the mentioned rims.
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Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

21 Oct 2016 05:05

Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:30 years wheel building and I've never built with the Easton R90 SL rims. I've rebuilt many Velomax (pre Easton) wheels, but never their standalone rim. So anyone with an opinion on these it would be great to hear anything about them.

My initial impressions from their spec sheet leaves me with one criticism; they list max kgf at 122. That's a telling sign the alloy they use is soft or the extrusion is thin. I usually like to get drive side spokes with alu rims to about 140kgf. Go for it, or steer clear?


You tension it to 140kgf and you are asking for a nipple to pull through on the mentioned rims.


How do you really know unless you've built with these? Lot's of rims out there list max kgf at 120ish and sometimes I gas it a bit more depending how the rims are reacting during the build process, never any long term problems. I'm simply asking for feedback from someone with experience building or riding these particular rims. Have any?
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Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

21 Oct 2016 10:32

MWC wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:30 years wheel building and I've never built with the Easton R90 SL rims. I've rebuilt many Velomax (pre Easton) wheels, but never their standalone rim. So anyone with an opinion on these it would be great to hear anything about them.

My initial impressions from their spec sheet leaves me with one criticism; they list max kgf at 122. That's a telling sign the alloy they use is soft or the extrusion is thin. I usually like to get drive side spokes with alu rims to about 140kgf. Go for it, or steer clear?


You tension it to 140kgf and you are asking for a nipple to pull through on the mentioned rims.


How do you really know unless you've built with these? Lot's of rims out there list max kgf at 120ish and sometimes I gas it a bit more depending how the rims are reacting during the build process, never any long term problems. I'm simply asking for feedback from someone with experience building or riding these particular rims. Have any?


Errr, I have(?)..as you mentioned, thin walled, trying to be light, light. 455 grams but kinda aero-y so thin..R90Sl rim?

But your wheels, do whatever you want.
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Re: ::::~ Wheelbuilders thread ~::::

21 Oct 2016 13:58

Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:30 years wheel building and I've never built with the Easton R90 SL rims. I've rebuilt many Velomax (pre Easton) wheels, but never their standalone rim. So anyone with an opinion on these it would be great to hear anything about them.

My initial impressions from their spec sheet leaves me with one criticism; they list max kgf at 122. That's a telling sign the alloy they use is soft or the extrusion is thin. I usually like to get drive side spokes with alu rims to about 140kgf. Go for it, or steer clear?


You tension it to 140kgf and you are asking for a nipple to pull through on the mentioned rims.


How do you really know unless you've built with these? Lot's of rims out there list max kgf at 120ish and sometimes I gas it a bit more depending how the rims are reacting during the build process, never any long term problems. I'm simply asking for feedback from someone with experience building or riding these particular rims. Have any?


Errr, I have(?)..as you mentioned, thin walled, trying to be light, light. 455 grams but kinda aero-y so thin..R90Sl rim?

But your wheels, do whatever you want.


Yep, R90 SL. That's what I needed to hear, because max kgf is probably one of the most arbitrary numbers in wheels.
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22 Oct 2016 19:13

Here's another one. Remember Rigida from way back? Now called Ryde, and as of last year they've been making a big push in the US market with a big catalog featuring a bunch of new designs. Lots of wide stance, asym, ultralight to bomber, many applications. Curious if anyone here is building with or riding these rims. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.
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Re:

23 Oct 2016 12:49

MWC wrote:Here's another one. Remember Rigida from way back? Now called Ryde, and as of last year they've been making a big push in the US market with a big catalog featuring a bunch of new designs. Lots of wide stance, asym, ultralight to bomber, many applications. Curious if anyone here is building with or riding these rims. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.


Thor USA sells them. I've never seen one..light and not cheap..$135

http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/rims.htm
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Re: Re:

23 Oct 2016 16:19

Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:Here's another one. Remember Rigida from way back? Now called Ryde, and as of last year they've been making a big push in the US market with a big catalog featuring a bunch of new designs. Lots of wide stance, asym, ultralight to bomber, many applications. Curious if anyone here is building with or riding these rims. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.


Thor USA sells them. I've never seen one..light and not cheap..$135

http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/rims.htm


Ryde MSRP is pretty normal considering:
HED Belgium+ $150
Velocity Quill $126

But, I get it. Hard to think of what was formerly Rigida and Weinmann as top shelf contender. The designs look great tho.
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Re: Re:

24 Oct 2016 11:07

MWC wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:Here's another one. Remember Rigida from way back? Now called Ryde, and as of last year they've been making a big push in the US market with a big catalog featuring a bunch of new designs. Lots of wide stance, asym, ultralight to bomber, many applications. Curious if anyone here is building with or riding these rims. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.


Thor USA sells them. I've never seen one..light and not cheap..$135

http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/rims.htm


Ryde MSRP is pretty normal considering:
HED Belgium+ $150
Velocity Quill $126

But, I get it. Hard to think of what was formerly Rigida and Weinmann as top shelf contender. The designs look great tho.


Not sure why HED are so expensive. Another Asian made rim(and that's NOT a bad thing) like Ryde and DT460, as an example but way more $. DT460 about $55(DT factory, just in Asia), H+Son less than $90..
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2016 04:33

Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:Here's another one. Remember Rigida from way back? Now called Ryde, and as of last year they've been making a big push in the US market with a big catalog featuring a bunch of new designs. Lots of wide stance, asym, ultralight to bomber, many applications. Curious if anyone here is building with or riding these rims. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.


Thor USA sells them. I've never seen one..light and not cheap..$135

http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/rims.htm


Ryde MSRP is pretty normal considering:
HED Belgium+ $150
Velocity Quill $126

But, I get it. Hard to think of what was formerly Rigida and Weinmann as top shelf contender. The designs look great tho.


Not sure why HED are so expensive. Another Asian made rim(and that's NOT a bad thing) like Ryde and DT460, as an example but way more $. DT460 about $55(DT factory, just in Asia), H+Son less than $90..


HED was first to realize the benefits of wider profiles so that gives them free reign to charge whatever they want. $150 for an aluminum on the heavy side of light apparently doesn't phase people because they sell a ton.
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2016 10:18

MWC wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:Here's another one. Remember Rigida from way back? Now called Ryde, and as of last year they've been making a big push in the US market with a big catalog featuring a bunch of new designs. Lots of wide stance, asym, ultralight to bomber, many applications. Curious if anyone here is building with or riding these rims. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.


Thor USA sells them. I've never seen one..light and not cheap..$135

http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/rims.htm


Ryde MSRP is pretty normal considering:
HED Belgium+ $150
Velocity Quill $126

But, I get it. Hard to think of what was formerly Rigida and Weinmann as top shelf contender. The designs look great tho.


Not sure why HED are so expensive. Another Asian made rim(and that's NOT a bad thing) like Ryde and DT460, as an example but way more $. DT460 about $55(DT factory, just in Asia), H+Son less than $90..


HED was first to realize the benefits of wider profiles so that gives them free reign to charge whatever they want. $150 for an aluminum on the heavy side of light apparently doesn't phase people because they sell a ton.


Doesn't really matter but I think Velocity and the A23 was one of the first(First?) to make and sell a wide rim..OC rear to boot. I know they sell a lot and they make for a nice wheel but not 30% better than Velocity, H+Son, Pacenti, others, IMHO.
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Re: Re:

28 Oct 2016 13:57

A23 was a quick answer the same year after the Belgium was released. HED was definitely first, they did all the testing that proved wide made a difference. Have intimate knowledge of this playing out, lots of friends and former colleagues at HED. I lived 4 miles from the original location, then they moved 4 miles to my West into my dad's old building. That place was cursed, it's also where Steve died.
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Re: Re:

29 Oct 2016 11:31

MWC wrote:A23 was a quick answer the same year after the Belgium was released. HED was definitely first, they did all the testing that proved wide made a difference. Have intimate knowledge of this playing out, lots of friends and former colleagues at HED. I lived 4 miles from the original location, then they moved 4 miles to my West into my dad's old building. That place was cursed, it's also where Steve died.


Yikes, thanks for the info..wish HED rims were less expensive, they make for great wheels.
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Re: Re:

29 Oct 2016 18:30

Bustedknuckle wrote:
MWC wrote:A23 was a quick answer the same year after the Belgium was released. HED was definitely first, they did all the testing that proved wide made a difference. Have intimate knowledge of this playing out, lots of friends and former colleagues at HED. I lived 4 miles from the original location, then they moved 4 miles to my West into my dad's old building. That place was cursed, it's also where Steve died.


Yikes, thanks for the info..wish HED rims were less expensive, they make for great wheels.


Of the all the wide aluminum road rims we've had access to for the past several years I'd have to put H Plus Son's Archetype at the top. Build quality and ride characteristics as the two main focal points, only edging out HED's Belgium C2 by a narrow margin. Have a few customers out there that actually have both builds, typically with White Industries T11 hubs and CX-Ray spokes. All say the Archetypes feel like the better wheel set. My daily road set for the past few years: 1996 Campy Chorus hubs, CX-Ray spokes, high polish Archetypes. Mmmmm, mmm, mmm... So good!

Of course you know this already, so maybe this info is for those unfamiliar with the brands. HED is more visible because of racing pedigree, Steve HED (R.I.P.) was one of the most preeminent authorities on wheel aerodynamics. The Belgium rim was the inflection point for what started the trend towards wider road rims. H Plus Son came to market strictly as an urban fixed brand. No doubt they can be a hard sell sometimes because most never heard of them. If they have there's always the hipster association to Civil War beards, Hitler Youth haircuts, and skinny jeans. Not sure if they still do, but for a long time the 'H' in H Plus Son produced all the aluminum rims for Shimano wheels.
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