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The Powermeter Thread

Moderator: King Boonen

09 Jan 2015 02:51

FrankDay wrote:Staying with the "practice" of the PM, what is the purpose of doing the measuring? Why do it? If runners (or almost any other athlete I can think of) don't need to measure power why do cyclists?


They use heart rate monitors. Again, a measuring tool. The PM is just a better way of measuring.
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09 Jan 2015 03:42

FrankDay wrote:Staying with the "practice" of the PM, what is the purpose of doing the measuring? Why do it? If runners (or almost any other athlete I can think of) don't need to measure power why do cyclists?


I can guarantee that numerous people/groups are working on a 'power meter' for running.

Can you answer one question. What evidence do you have the a power meter will slow you down?
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09 Jan 2015 03:47

FrankDay wrote:...Wait, according to Heisenberg and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle just measuring the power changes it, so I guess that is true (but is it changed up or down?), but not in the way that most think that it does.)...


Can you explain what quantum mechanics has to do with measuring power of a rider on a bicycle???
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09 Jan 2015 03:56

veganrob wrote:They use heart rate monitors.
Not all runners use HRM's and there is no scientific evidence using one results in faster runners.
Again, a measuring tool. The PM is just a better way of measuring.
Trying to stay with the science of PM's I think all one can say is a PM is a DIFFERENT way of measuring. Before one can say it is a BETTER way of measuring there has to be some evidence to support that of which there is none. To say it is better reflects your opinion only based on ...? Let's try to stay with the science and practice of PM's here if we can.
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FrankDay
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09 Jan 2015 04:02

JamesCun wrote:I can guarantee that numerous people/groups are working on a 'power meter' for running.
Good luck to them. LOL.

Can you answer one question. What evidence do you have the a power meter will slow you down?
The video that was posted awhile back? Theoretically, anything that distracts the rider from the task at hand has the potential to slowing them down. But, that is not the question as I see it, the question being does using a PM make the rider better than they could be without one? It it doesn't do that what good is it for the competitive cyclist?
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FrankDay
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09 Jan 2015 04:13

JamesCun wrote:Can you explain what quantum mechanics has to do with measuring power of a rider on a bicycle???
Well, staying with the "science of PM" theme, power requires knowing the speed of the bike. Knowing the speed requires knowing the position of the bike between two different times. According to Heisenberg, it is not possible to accurately know both the speed (momentum) and position of anything at the same time. This, affects the accuracy of the measured power. Even though the error is pretty small it is an accepted scientific fact. Just trying to stay with the science of PM theme. :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
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FrankDay
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09 Jan 2015 04:15

FrankDay wrote:Good luck to them. LOL. The video that was posted awhile back? Theoretically, anything that distracts the rider from the task at hand has the potential to slowing them down. But, that is not the question as I see it, the question being does using a PM make the rider better than they could be without one? It it doesn't do that what good is it for the competitive cyclist?


Please stick to relevant arguments. A random video of something random happening that you have absolutely no knowledge of the specifics of the situation is about as weak an attempt as you could possible make.

So again I ask you a simple question, post some scientific evidence that a PM makes you slower.
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09 Jan 2015 04:19

FrankDay wrote:Well, staying with the "science of PM" theme, power requires knowing the speed of the bike. Knowing the speed requires knowing the position of the bike between two different times. According to Heisenberg, it is not possible to accurately know both the speed (momentum) and position of anything at the same time. This, affects the accuracy of the measured power. Even though the error is pretty small it is an accepted scientific fact. Just trying to stay with the science of PM theme. :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle


I thought you were educated? Why twist quantum mechanics and the properties of waves and particles into a discussion of bicycles and power meters.
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09 Jan 2015 04:23

JamesCun wrote:Please stick to relevant arguments. A random video of something random happening that you have absolutely no knowledge of the specifics of the situation is about as weak an attempt as you could possible make.

So again I ask you a simple question, post some scientific evidence that a PM makes you slower.
I am not aware of any scientific evidence that a PM does anything good or bad for the cyclist.
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FrankDay
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09 Jan 2015 04:40

FrankDay wrote:I am not aware of any scientific evidence that a PM does anything...bad for the cyclist.


See, that wasn't so hard. We didn't need quantum theories, or silly videos for that, did we. Glad we are on the same page now :)
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09 Jan 2015 04:45

Enough is enough. I don't know if you are deliberate or demented.

Closed while I try to get this discussion back on track. And pack your things Frank
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09 Jan 2015 05:01

I have purged a day of drivel, and issued a direct warning via PM.

Not happy Jan.

Keep to the topic. Be obtuse and derail and on your own head be it.
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18 Jan 2015 21:01

CoachFergie wrote:Riding your bike, diet, recovery, having goals, finding ways to learn to cycle better will help you improve as a cyclist.

A power meter is one way of measuring that improvement. The Garmin Vector is a good way of doing this. As are other models of power meters. There are some excellent reviews a few posts back.


http://www.brimbrothers.com/update-january-2015/
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18 Jan 2015 21:40



Noel,

Are you intending to purchase one of the early sets of these? I'm certain you'll learn a great deal by using them if you do and look forward to hear about your experience.

Hugh
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18 Jan 2015 23:00

sciguy wrote:Noel,

Are you intending to purchase one of the early sets of these? I'm certain you'll learn a great deal by using them if you do and look forward to hear about your experience.

Hugh


If it is a torque meter (around the circle) in addition to a power meter, the answer is yes as this will confirm what should have already been obvious to scientists that this man (when at max power output in the finishing straight on this track) is starting his power stroke around 11 and applying maximal torque at 12). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hh2DcgpnkU
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18 Jan 2015 23:11

coapman wrote:If it is a torque meter (around the circle) in addition to a power meter, the answer is yes as this will confirm what should have already been obvious to scientists that this man (when at max power output in the finishing straight on this track) is starting his power stroke around 11 and applying maximal torque at 12). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hh2DcgpnkU


I may have missed it and this may be OT, but did you ever do a diagram showing muscle force generation vs fixed hip, knee and ankle fulcrums vs the fixed BB and crank / pedal fulcrums to explain how maximum torque can be applied at 12 O'clock?
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19 Jan 2015 11:13

coapman wrote:If it is a torque meter (around the circle) in addition to a power meter,


You've been able to get such torque data at 200Hz from an SRM for decades. It just requires the torque analysis option.
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19 Jan 2015 13:09

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:You've been able to get such torque data at 200Hz from an SRM for decades. It just requires the torque analysis option.


That's true but as I have already explained, I am useless working on this equipment and need to have it set up for me and fully explained with the least possible inconvenience. DW I will answer your question in the PT thread.
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20 Jan 2015 05:40

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:You've been able to get such torque data at 200Hz from an SRM for decades. It just requires the torque analysis option.
What do you mean by "such data"? SRM strain gauges are downstream from the cranks so it combines the two cranks together so SRM cannot possibly provide individual pedal torque analysis. The SRM torque analysis option simply provides an output similar to Computrainer spinscan.
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20 Jan 2015 07:47

FrankDay wrote:What do you mean by "such data"? SRM strain gauges are downstream from the cranks so it combines the two cranks together so SRM cannot possibly provide individual pedal torque analysis. The SRM torque analysis option simply provides an output similar to Computrainer spinscan.


Coapman asked about data from a "torque meter around the circle". Providing the data on the net torque from both cranks is more than sufficient for this purpose.
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