Log in:  

Register

Pros & Cons of a Vegan Diet for Weight Loss & Cycling Performance?

Moderator: Tonton

22 Sep 2014 08:19

BigMac wrote:Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial. If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know. And that article is so vague. They state 'dangers', yet only mention B12, and then supposedly quote federal authorities but provide no sources.


For Vitamin B12 just eat Marmite (in the UK), probably called 'Yeast Extract Spread' elsewhere. Not sure exactly how Vegemite in Australia compares but as far as I know its pretty similar.
TheSpud
Member
 
Posts: 1,214
Joined: 03 Jul 2014 20:43

22 Sep 2014 15:00

BigMac wrote:Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial. If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know. And that article is so vague. They state 'dangers', yet only mention B12, and then supposedly quote federal authorities but provide no sources.


Except some people don't respond well to vegan diets while others do.

I know I didn't. I know my SO didn't. I realize that's just two data points, so it's not conclusive evidence of anything.

If it works for you, then great. I have a hard time with some of the vegan claims because they are pretty strong sometimes.
User avatar DirtyWorks
Veteran
 
Posts: 8,058
Joined: 10 Feb 2010 17:01

23 Sep 2014 06:45

^ pure curiosity, when you say "it didn't work" what aspects are you referring to? What was the time frame of the diet and ballpark foods consumed?

I am neither pro or con vegan diet, but some of my athletes are or enquire about it, more info from more people is better.
Tapeworm
Member
 
Posts: 548
Joined: 12 Mar 2009 10:28

17 Oct 2014 06:09

DirtyWorks wrote:Except some people don't respond well to vegan diets while others do.

I know I didn't. I know my SO didn't. I realize that's just two data points, so it's not conclusive evidence of anything.

If it works for you, then great. I have a hard time with some of the vegan claims because they are pretty strong sometimes.


I read about similar topic before. Some people have good capacity to metabolize carbs and some don't. Same with animal protein and fat. We need to find what kind of body we have, and set up the diet plan accordingly...
JamesHavey
Newly Registered Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 17 Oct 2014 05:52

17 Oct 2014 14:28

TheSpud wrote:For Vitamin B12 just eat Marmite (in the UK), probably called 'Yeast Extract Spread' elsewhere. Not sure exactly how Vegemite in Australia compares but as far as I know its pretty similar.

Of the Australian yeast extract spreads, Vegemite and
Promite have no B12, but AussieMite does, my friend.
http://www.aussiemite.com.au
Also, some nutritional yeast flakes have added B12.
Team GB 2016: victoRIOus, happy and gloRIOus
User avatar oldcrank
Member
 
Posts: 1,420
Joined: 24 Jul 2009 07:16

15 Nov 2014 02:49

Never really been sure if this thread is about nutrition and athletic performance or nutrition and weight loss. Here is an interesting interview discussing low carb (or alternatively high protein-high fat) diets for weight loss as well as endurance sports:

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/lowcarb/default.htm
"If you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
User avatar elapid
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,418
Joined: 18 Mar 2009 13:10

23 Nov 2014 02:30

BigMac wrote:Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial.
Nonsense indeed.

BigMac wrote:If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know.
And for good reason. Most of them are useless.
User avatar Granville57
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,453
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 16:29

23 Nov 2014 02:34

BigMac wrote:Nonsence. A balanced vegan diet is not only healthy, it is beneficial. If people cannot meet their RDD, just take supplements. They are cheap, you know. And that article is so vague. They state 'dangers', yet only mention B12, and then supposedly quote federal authorities but provide no sources.


If you cannot get your needs met by whatever diet you're on, then it's not healthy.
twothirds
Junior Member
 
Posts: 274
Joined: 30 Sep 2009 12:16
Location: YEG

23 Nov 2014 02:37

Seeing that this is a Durian thread, I've no interest in reading through the entirety of it, but if this hasn't been linked already, I'm sure some of you will find it interesting (not sure why it remained in the PRR sub-forum though).

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14261&highlight=vegan

American David Zabriskie Aims to Compete in the World's Most Grueling Bike Race—As a Vegan*
User avatar Granville57
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,453
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 16:29

23 Nov 2014 02:49

Tapeworm wrote:^ pure curiosity, when you say "it didn't work" what aspects are you referring to?


If I may, I'll respond to this with a link from the past.

Granville57 wrote:
durianrider wrote:<snip>[color="Red"]a waste of time[/color]<snip>

Ive NEVER met a depressed person that was eating over 10g of carbs per kg of bodyweight per day. EVER. Once we start doing that for a few weeks then we notice profound shifts in mental state. Then we start to hydrate and sleep proper as a result. (cant hydrate/sleep proper when your undercarbed).

<snip>[color="red"]pay attention[/color]<snip>
I guess this is what it took for me to finally acknowledge your ridiculousness. There can certainly be no doubt that you are an expert on all things you. But don't be so irresponsible as to suggest that you somehow have insight into everyone else.

Speaking for myself, which is all I would ever attempt to do on this topic: Everything you state above is 100% wrong.

By following a program that is pretty much the antithesis to everything your carry on about, I found myself in the best shape of my life after decades of struggling with erratic sleep, dramatic mood swings, and dark holes of depression.

Without rehashing too much of a very old and tired debate, it was in the hopes of overcoming years of fatigue and depression that I became a vegetarian for several years and a fairly strict vegan for three of those years. But not once did I ever preach about it to anyone else because I would have no way of knowing what works for other people.

A series of events led me to explore the Atkins "diet." It changed my life. By switching to a high protein, very low carb regimen, I noticed many changes, all of which were beneficial.

I became leaner and more fit than at any time in my life.
For the first time ever, I was able to go to bed early in the evening and wake up very early in the morning after a night of undisturbed sleep.
I was more mentally alert and my energy levels were more consistent than they had ever been.
All my signs of depression disappeared.

I was cycling, running and hitting the gym more consistently than at any time previous in my life.
In my early forties I was easily in the best overall shape of my life.
It was during this period that I sacrificed time on my bike to focus on running, and to successfully train for my first marathon and compete in duathlons. I never once ate a high-carb diet prior to a race.

Eating this way proved to be extremely effective for me and I learned, in time, just when and how much carb consumption I could get away with (I never said they didn't taste good, and they are neccesary, for me, during long rides and intense racing). And when I did consume carbs, my body processed them much more efficiently.

I also learned that the darkness of depression can easily return if my carb intake (and no, I'm not just talking about refined sugars and the like here) goes beyond a certain level. What you recommend would be nothing short of disastrous for me.

Everyone needs to find their own path.
To suggest otherwise, with self-absorbed blanket statements, is pure idiocy.
And in this case, quite possibly hugely irresponsible.
User avatar Granville57
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,453
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 16:29

23 Nov 2014 03:17

Tapeworm wrote:What was the time frame of the diet and ballpark foods consumed?


For me to achieve peak fitness—and this involves both strength training and endurance training—what has proven to be most effective is:

Breakfast: Eggs with cheese and veggies, all cooked in olive oil.

Snack: A wrap consisting of either almond or cashew butter, or hummus and veggies. Another option would be yogurt and fruit (or more specifically: Skyr, which is Icelandic yogurt. Low in sugars and higher in protein than most sugary yogurts).

Lunch: Chicken with veggies along with a very small amount of rice.
Or tuna fish also with some veggies.

Dinner: Chicken or steak with lots of veggies.

Most effective beverage: Water

Favorite supplements to all of the above: Dark chocolate (in moderation), and dried figs.

I would generally only consume pure carbs just prior to running or riding, and certainly during my rides.

Also, on such a diet, I can occasionally indulge in whatever I like with absolutely no detrimental effects or weight gain. Cheese burgers, beer and ice cream would sometimes precede some of my best training days. It's all about knowing what you can get away with and when, and that comes only through experience and trusting your body (and ignoring the advice of others).

More recently though, beans have become one my food staples, to great effect as well, while still leaning towards a low-carb/high-protein overall diet.

My personal stats:
Height = 6' (183cm)
Weight = 160 lbs (72 kg)
[This could get as low as 150 lbs (68 kg) depending on intake and training]
User avatar Granville57
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,453
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 16:29

Re:

19 Dec 2015 09:13

Granville57 wrote:
Tapeworm wrote:What was the time frame of the diet and ballpark foods consumed?


For me to achieve peak fitness—and this involves both strength training and endurance training—what has proven to be most effective is:

Breakfast: Eggs with cheese and veggies, all cooked in olive oil.

Snack: A wrap consisting of either almond or cashew butter, or hummus and veggies. Another option would be yogurt and fruit (or more specifically: Skyr, which is Icelandic yogurt. Low in sugars and higher in protein than most sugary yogurts).

Lunch: Chicken with veggies along with a very small amount of rice.
Or tuna fish also with some veggies.

Dinner: Chicken or steak with lots of veggies.

Most effective beverage: Water

Favorite supplements to all of the above: Dark chocolate (in moderation), and dried figs.

I would generally only consume pure carbs just prior to running or riding, and certainly during my rides.

Also, on such a diet, I can occasionally indulge in whatever I like with absolutely no detrimental effects or weight gain. Cheese burgers, beer and ice cream would sometimes precede some of my best training days. It's all about knowing what you can get away with and when, and that comes only through experience and trusting your body (and ignoring the advice of others).

More recently though, beans have become one my food staples, to great effect as well, while still leaning towards a low-carb/high-protein overall diet.

My personal stats:
Height = 6' (183cm)
Weight = 160 lbs (72 kg)
[This could get as low as 150 lbs (68 kg) depending on intake and training]



Heck mate you must be CREEPING when you get on the bike due to chronic glucose exhaustion lol!

Have you had an angiogram recently?

If carbs are so bad how come ALL the worlds top athletes rely on them? Ive never heard of someone drinking olive oil instead of a sugar drink hehe.

I had a mate who did the atkins diet for about a week. His 20min power literally went from 380w down to 180 lol! and he STRUGGLED to hold that 180w. He almost punched me out I heckled him on the climb so much haha.

I don't understand your logic. You only eat certain yoghurts because they are low sugar but then you go eat high sugar ice cream during a binge?

That is like me claiming that riding with 20psi tires is the best but then I sneak in 100psi before the TT :D
User avatar durianrider
Member
 
Posts: 759
Joined: 14 Mar 2010 06:54
Location: byron bay, NYC, Bangkok, Radelaide, Sydney, Sunshine Coast.

Re: Re:

19 Dec 2015 16:39

durianrider wrote:
Granville57 wrote:
Tapeworm wrote:What was the time frame of the diet and ballpark foods consumed?


For me to achieve peak fitness—and this involves both strength training and endurance training—what has proven to be most effective is:

Breakfast: Eggs with cheese and veggies, all cooked in olive oil.

Snack: A wrap consisting of either almond or cashew butter, or hummus and veggies. Another option would be yogurt and fruit (or more specifically: Skyr, which is Icelandic yogurt. Low in sugars and higher in protein than most sugary yogurts).

Lunch: Chicken with veggies along with a very small amount of rice.
Or tuna fish also with some veggies.

Dinner: Chicken or steak with lots of veggies.

Most effective beverage: Water

Favorite supplements to all of the above: Dark chocolate (in moderation), and dried figs.

I would generally only consume pure carbs just prior to running or riding, and certainly during my rides.

Also, on such a diet, I can occasionally indulge in whatever I like with absolutely no detrimental effects or weight gain. Cheese burgers, beer and ice cream would sometimes precede some of my best training days. It's all about knowing what you can get away with and when, and that comes only through experience and trusting your body (and ignoring the advice of others).

More recently though, beans have become one my food staples, to great effect as well, while still leaning towards a low-carb/high-protein overall diet.

My personal stats:
Height = 6' (183cm)
Weight = 160 lbs (72 kg)
[This could get as low as 150 lbs (68 kg) depending on intake and training]



Heck mate you must be CREEPING when you get on the bike due to chronic glucose exhaustion lol!

Have you had an angiogram recently?

If carbs are so bad how come ALL the worlds top athletes rely on them? Ive never heard of someone drinking olive oil instead of a sugar drink hehe.

"I had a mate who did the atkins diet for about a week. His 20min power literally went from 380w down to 180 lol! and he STRUGGLED to hold that 180w. He almost punched me out I heckled him on the climb so much haha."

I don't understand your logic. You only eat certain yoghurts because they are low sugar but then you go eat high sugar ice cream during a binge?

That is like me claiming that riding with 20psi tires is the best but then I sneak in 100psi before the TT :D


This is anecdotal of course, as is Granville's post. Everyone's body reacts differently to a certain diet.
For instance my body only works with a 100% steak diet. :p ;)

Also, by definition a binge is a departure from your normal diet on a certain occasion. So, he might keep a low sugar diet, but then on occasion (key word) have some ice cream or a cheese burger...makes sense to me.
Skyline Drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPjM6rZ4pN0
_____________________________________________________________________________
Canton Ave Climb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90ZPlbEfmU
User avatar Jspear
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,973
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 03:50
Location: N. VA, USA

Re: Pros & Cons of a Vegan Diet for Weight Loss & Cycling Pe

21 Dec 2015 21:10

The reason for the binge is the body is glucose exhausted and then demands it get some sugars to restock glycogen.

If we look at how PED's work, the most common drugs used in cycling help the body store more glycogen or force more sugars into the cells.

Even EPO brings additional cardioprotection to the heart by enhanced phosphorylation of glycogen synthase kinase-3 beta.

To cut out or cut down the most IMPORTANT fuel for humans - sugar, is like taking air out of your tires as a cyclist or cutting chunks out of your rims to save weight or taking off your brake pads so your rims don't 'wear out'.
User avatar durianrider
Member
 
Posts: 759
Joined: 14 Mar 2010 06:54
Location: byron bay, NYC, Bangkok, Radelaide, Sydney, Sunshine Coast.

Re: Pros & Cons of a Vegan Diet for Weight Loss & Cycling Pe

21 Dec 2015 22:22

durianrider wrote:If we look at how PED's work, the most common drugs used in cycling help the body store more glycogen or force more sugars into the cells.


Sorry, what?

Even EPO brings additional cardioprotection to the heart by enhanced phosphorylation of glycogen synthase kinase-3 beta.


You realise this has nothing to do with glycogen don't you? And that googling EPO and glycogen and rewording the title from the article in the first hit is a very bad way to try and back up your claims?
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 6,249
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

Re: Re:

24 Dec 2015 01:23

durianrider wrote:Heck mate you must be CREEPING when you get on the bike due to chronic glucose exhaustion lol!
Actually, no. But thanks for asking.

durianrider wrote:If carbs are so bad how come ALL the worlds top athletes rely on them?
You mean Team Sky's notoriously low carb intake? This isn't the '80s anymore, dude. People have progressed.

However, where did I suggest that carbs are bad? Reading comprehension issues on your end, is that it?
I specifically mentioned the need and preference for carbs pre-ride, and during. Something difficult to understand about that? I just have no need for excessive carbs at any other time. In fact, excessive carb intake at any other time is actually detrimental to me. You see, I rely on carbs too. But only at specific times, as stated.


durianrider wrote:I had a mate who did the atkins diet for about a week.

Well, gee whiz. So which of you knows less about Atkins, you or him?
Atkins isn't something that you can "do for a week." Your blind ignorance on the topic is laughable. The Atkins program starts with a severely reduced carb intake for a period of usually 2 to 3 weeks. This is to compensate for the extremely high-carb diet that many people find themselves on, and have been unwittingly following for much of their lives (this goes back to the period before Atkins became spoken of in the mainstream, and many people were simply unaware of their own carb intake, or how it might affect them for good or bad).

After that initial phase, carbs are then methodically reintroduced to one's diet, with a new-found awareness of the affects they can have. This requires at least a few weeks to determine how much, or how littles is necessary. I'm sorry if you and your friend have too little patience for some things, but this is just how it works. Suggesting that one could "do Atkins in a week" and then draw conclusions from the failed attempt, would be akin to some saying, "I tried running for a week, but it made my legs sore, so I quit. It obviously has no benefit." :rolleyes:



durianrider wrote:I don't understand your logic. You only eat certain yoghurts because they are low sugar but then you go eat high sugar ice cream during a binge?
You fail to understand many things, mostly due to your willful ignorance on the topic of nutrition. First of all, the term "binge" is all yours. I eat low sugar yogurts to reduce my daily carb intake, because doing so is beneficial to me. That point that I was making, and that you chose to ignore, was that when maintaing a low-carb diet on a regular basis, and achieving my desired race weight, I can then, on occasion, indulge in whatever the hell I like, and not suffer any unwanted weight gain. I might do this only once or month or so, or maybe twice in one week, or maybe only once every four months! But as long as return to my low-carb routine, and adhere to it with some diligence, then I am none the worse for my pleasant indulgence. And by sticking to my low carb routine, I never have those irresistible cravings for carbs. My choices become more about my wants and simple pleasures, as opposed to any perceived needs that are typically associated with craving and/or food addictions. But I realize that this might be a complex issue for you to understand.


durianrider wrote:The reason for the binge is the body is glucose exhausted and then demands it get some sugars to restock glycogen.

LOL

In my case, the "reason for the binge" has nothing whatsoever to do with glucose exhaustion. It has everything to do with the fact that I really do enjoy a good burger (with bacon!), some craft beer, and quality ice cream. See that? Science!
User avatar Granville57
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,453
Joined: 07 Dec 2010 16:29

26 Feb 2016 20:32

Yesterday I ate 4 cheese burgar's [low fat lean meat], Jacket potatoe's with beans a thick crust pizza [ medium] and 3 penguin chocolate bars. I had a brilliant ride today. Loads of energy felt really great. I obviously don't eat like that all the time. I tend to eat jacket potatoes a lot, you have to eat . The burgars had big white bread buns and loads of vegis in them so they were about as healthy a burgar as you could get " I know vegis/vegans :cry: "
Its not my usual daily food intake, that's usually more potatoes chocolate biscuits/bars ice cream/choc ices, diet caffine free pepsi , battered fish cod "love it" southern fried chicken portions "tasty" I drink plenty of water and make sure I get the potatoes and beans for the carbs. Its a crap diet but I'm not fat have loads of energy and don't count my calories. I can do sh5t loads of pull ups/chin ups and bench 200lbs every other day 3/5 sets of 10 reps and do other body parts has and when . I would go heavier with the weights but I don't have any more weight in the house to add :D works for me . The only supplement is B12.
No carbs= no fuel =no energy. Simple.
ray j willings
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,645
Joined: 04 Aug 2011 18:15

02 Mar 2016 22:27

I have possibly had the odd argument with DR about eating meat and that not all meat eaters are fat bastards but this yesterday was completely over the top by this lunatic loser Anthony Colpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJCasLsyJ6c

These two have had a long running war about veganism and whatever it is that Colpo promotes (mainly BS). Colpo turns up mid everesting attempt by DR and punches him out as he's climbing 12% gradient ...... WTF!!

Hope bike not too badly damaged.

FWIW Anthony Colpo was also a cyclist at some point, albeit a fat slow one.
Night Rider
Member
 
Posts: 554
Joined: 20 Jan 2010 22:35

03 Mar 2016 11:02

That's utterly disgraceful, hope DR and his bike are both ok.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Moderator
 
Posts: 6,249
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

03 Mar 2016 14:32

If you see DR latest vid he explains what happens. That guy AC looks like he his on full steroid rage to me and challenging DR to a fight in a ring.
That's crazy and proves nothing. Its so stupid to take things that far. I know DR comes across to some people like he's arrogant etc but I just see someone telling it like it is. I think he's very informative and makes a lot of sense. I'm not a vegan but what DR promotes is nothing but good. I would go Vegan but I do like a burgar/chicken. I do however make sure I eat plenty of carbs which just makes a lot of sense.
Fuel the body. Simple.
Keep it rocking DR .
ray j willings
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,645
Joined: 04 Aug 2011 18:15

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Back to top