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High volume vs lots of top-end self-smashing training????

Moderator: King Boonen

05 Sep 2013 08:45

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Oh yes, I didn't mean to imply my suggestion was perfect, nor optimal in all cases for everyone, rather when you don't have a lot of data to go on, it's a sound fall-back position. From there you collect more information about the individual and tailor accordingly.

Frankly, when I do get to see the training history from a new client what often sticks out is the lack of consistency (for whatever reason), and addressing that goes a long way to helping performance improve.


A good point.

I managed to retain most of my FTP when doing 18 months of no more than 15 minutes reasonably hard to work and 20 minutes home 4 or 5 days a week.

I wasn't doing much but it was consistent.
Retro Trev
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05 Sep 2013 09:07

Raises lots of questions. How was FTP determined? Did this maintenance translate into performance or racing outcomes?

I had a rider build a serious level of fitness over the NZ Summer measured by Chronic Training Load in WKO+ and some handy power for a woman on the WKO+ Power Profile Chart. End of January she had surgery and in the recovery lost a lot of fitness before heading to the US for Pro Team commitments.

Without a base of fitness she struggled all season and with regular racing inc numerous 3-5 days back to back crits or stage races she never regained that fitness. Her power profile was good and her FTP was good but without that base of fitness was on the back foot all season.

I would be recording more than just FTP to assess how well a riding and racing programme was working.
Hamish Ferguson
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05 Sep 2013 10:49

CoachFergie wrote:Raises lots of questions. How was FTP determined? Did this maintenance translate into performance or racing outcomes?

I had a rider build a serious level of fitness over the NZ Summer measured by Chronic Training Load in WKO+ and some handy power for a woman on the WKO+ Power Profile Chart. End of January she had surgery and in the recovery lost a lot of fitness before heading to the US for Pro Team commitments.

Without a base of fitness she struggled all season and with regular racing inc numerous 3-5 days back to back crits or stage races she never regained that fitness. Her power profile was good and her FTP was good but without that base of fitness was on the back foot all season.

I would be recording more than just FTP to assess how well a riding and racing programme was working.


I use the term FTP only to use a well known term.

After some 18 months when i started to do some real training again my 20 minute power was at 89% of my previous 20 minute power.

It is entirely possible that FTP being 60 minute duration was down further, so my use of FTP was incorrect really. But I have always found in the past that whatever i can do over 20 minutes enables me to predict what I can do over an hour.

Point I'm making is how surprised i was to have retained as much power as i did.
Retro Trev
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08 Sep 2013 16:48

Thanks for the further replies.

So, I waddled around for some longer easy rides over the last couple of weeks, and I gotta say, I don't think I've got it in me to do 50 tons a week of Z1. I can do my typical recovery days of 30 to 50km -- which are usually a little longer in the warmer weather -- but that's about it. I could probably roll around in z1 for the odd 3-hours on a hot day, probably once a week, but that's as long as I could handle.

I was a meathead gym guy way before i was a cyclist, doing Mike Mentzer workouts, so 15 hours-a-week of Z1 just ain't me. Having said that, I probably already do 7 to 10 hours a week of Z1.

One thing's for sure, I don't wanna get skinny legs, :D as Dirtyworks said happened to him.

Is one of the keys to the case study I posted that ~45min a week above 95%max HR way too much, especially week in week out for 2.5? It wasn't until I said it out loud to someone that I realized how much it was.
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08 Sep 2013 16:50

CoachFergie wrote:It's all a matter of which religion you like. None of this has been well researched. The tools are there for those with a power meter to monitor individual progress. My suggestion is once you pick your religion then stick to it. Nothing appears to kill progress more than changing tack as often as you change underwear.

This is one of those pieces advice that sounds so fundamental, but immediately makes a lot of sense.
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08 Sep 2013 16:53

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:No, it doesn't. Training adaptations are on a continuum with intensity and workload is a function of both intensity and duration (and it's not a linear function).

The polarised model makes up for the reduced intensity with high volume and is a pointless training method for one with limitations on their training time availability.
Thanks. [SIZE="2"](minimum characters)[/SIZE]
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08 Sep 2013 16:58

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Frankly, when I do get to see the training history from a new client what often sticks out is the lack of consistency (for whatever reason), and addressing that goes a long way to helping performance improve.

My consistency of riding is pretty good (it's rare that I miss more than one day a week in the cold months, and it's not uncommon for me to go all Summer without missing a day on the bike), but I admit my intensity drops off a little over Winter, mostly because there are no races for me (I work most weekends, so I find it very tricky to get to the out-of-town Melbourne races, and the 9am Sunday races).
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