Log in:  

Register

Upper-body training for cyclists

Moderator: Tonton

13 Jun 2016 21:36

As we saw earlier, big arms are useful for gripping your handlebar hard in the event of a crash. However, that doesn't mean you don't need them during the rest of your training/racing.

Think of it. Triceps and shoulders often feel sore after supporting your bodyweight on the handlebar for long periods while training/racing. This website, intended specifically for road cyclists, recommends push-ups, dips and... wait for it, bench presses.

http://www.roadbikerider.com/ask-coach-fred
Check 'em!
User avatar CheckMyPecs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,400
Joined: 14 Mar 2016 09:24
Location: SW Europe

13 Jun 2016 23:44

If it were beneficial, why is no one doing it then? Sorry if this has been supposedly answered about a dozen times already....
User avatar jsem94
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,824
Joined: 05 Oct 2010 18:24
Location: Örebro, Sweden

Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 01:32

carton wrote:
StryderHells wrote:[Just because Kelly and Co are touting him as a GC contender in Suisse doesn't mean he is a GC contender

Yep. Sagan is an absolute freak, one of the most talented all-rounders in history. He is still not going to win this TdS.
movingtarget wrote:The odd thing about Sastre was that he won the Tour in 2008 and then seemed to fall off the radar. Maybe he lost his motivation and was happy to win one Tour.

Not the thread to re-debate the 2011 TdF but I do think Evans deserved his Tour, he was one of the best stage racers and he raced a good race. I'll will continue to disagree on the "strongest" assessment. YMMV.

In any case, it's funny how narratives go. Evan's best GT results after his win: 3rd, 7th, 8th (no other top-20s). Sastre's best GT results after his win; 2nd, 7th, 8th (3 other top 20s). Don't think either of them "fell off the radar", they just won old and got older. Also, Evans was a better one day racer, and an outspoken English speaker, not two qualities that Sastre shared, which may contribute to the way he is often (scarcely) remembered around these parts.


I think my memory is playing tricks as I did not remember Sastre's second. Sastre was a likeable guy, pretty quiet. I think Evans often just got fed up with the media and he seemed to be easy to provoke sometimes. Different personalities but both good to watch.
movingtarget
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,493
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 08:54

14 Jun 2016 06:58

If you count the 2009 Giro as being 2nd, actually his best results after the Tour win are 2nd (Giro '09) and 3rd (Vuelta '08) which is better than Evans'. However they're not really comparable because Evans had a complete other side to his game in short stage races (which he picked up plenty of results in post-Tour win with wins and podiums in the Critérium International, Giro del Trentino, TDU, Dauphiné and Tour of Oman, whereas recovery was such a large part of Sastre's GT skillset that, while the two podiums suggest Sastre remained better in the GTs after winning than Evans did (especially when you consider that Evans was fading in the 2013 Giro and the cancellation of the Martell stage helped his case enormously) apart from a podium in the Österreich Rundfahrt the year Geox weren't invited to the Tour and a somewhat anomalous podium in the Clásica San Sebastián in 2010, he has, unlike Evans, little palmarès outside of the GTs to point to post-2008 Tour.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
Veteran
 
Posts: 18,659
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 11:54
Location: Land of Saíz

14 Jun 2016 07:22

That 4th place at the 2009 Giro somehow was his last trick as a general classification rider. Since his top 10 spot in 2010 was massively helped by that large breakaway that managed to stay away!
User avatar staubsauger
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,613
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 18:14

Re:

14 Jun 2016 07:22

jsem94 wrote:If it were beneficial, why is no one doing it then? Sorry if this has been supposedly answered about a dozen times already....

A few riders are doing it. Sagan is one of them and he's a total beast.

As to why the majority of the peloton isn't doing it... Well, like in so many other aspects of life, the "we've always done it this way" mindset is a formidable obstacle to adopting new approaches.
Check 'em!
User avatar CheckMyPecs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,400
Joined: 14 Mar 2016 09:24
Location: SW Europe

Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 07:24

CheckMyPecs wrote:
jsem94 wrote:If it were beneficial, why is no one doing it then? Sorry if this has been supposedly answered about a dozen times already....

A few riders are doing it. Sagan is one of them and he's a total beast.

As to why the majority of the peloton isn't doing it... Well, like in so many other aspects of life, the "we've always done it this way" mindset is a formidable obstacle to adopting new approaches.

Sagan isn't a GT/climbing specialist.
Alberto we love you
on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
~TourOfSardinia
User avatar LaFlorecita
Veteran
 
Posts: 28,199
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 12:10

LaFlorecita wrote:Sagan isn't a GT/climbing specialist.

Evans is. Anyway, I believe we both agreed Evans proves it's possible for a rider with higher BMI to win the Tour.
Check 'em!
User avatar CheckMyPecs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,400
Joined: 14 Mar 2016 09:24
Location: SW Europe

14 Jun 2016 13:21

I don't think anyone has ever said that it isn't possible, they're just saying that it won't be an advantage.
As for the If they had stronger upper bodies they wouldn't crash as often argument, well... sure, if they had stronger upper bodies they might not crash that often, they'd also not get over the mountains as fast as they need in order to be GC contenders. Making it a choice between getting over the mountains quickly enough but maybe crashing a bit more than they would if they had bigger upper bodies, and not crashing as often but getting over the mountains way behind the GC contenders.
Besides, you seem to still be ignoring the fact that you don't need to have big bulky muscles in order to be strong. Here's a picture of Chris Froome's legs.

Image

As you can see they're pretty skinny, no big muscles. Would you argue Froome doesn't have strong legs?
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,622
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:47
Location: Viking Land! (Aros)

Re:

14 Jun 2016 13:29

RedheadDane wrote:if they had stronger upper bodies they might not crash that often, they'd also not get over the mountains as fast as they need in order to be GC contenders.

Where do you get that from?
Check 'em!
User avatar CheckMyPecs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,400
Joined: 14 Mar 2016 09:24
Location: SW Europe

Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 13:37

CheckMyPecs wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:if they had stronger upper bodies they might not crash that often, they'd also not get over the mountains as fast as they need in order to be GC contenders.

Where do you get that from?


If they had bigger muscles they'd have more weight to carry over the mountains. There's a reason guys like Kittel - who have big muscles so they'll be better at doing what's their speciality - are notoriously bad at climbing. It's not because they're fat.
Why are you acting as if the GC contenders not having big muscles is somehow a personal offence towards you? Can't you just... Let It Go?
(And don't make me start singing!)
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,622
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:47
Location: Viking Land! (Aros)

Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 13:39

RedheadDane wrote:
CheckMyPecs wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:if they had stronger upper bodies they might not crash that often, they'd also not get over the mountains as fast as they need in order to be GC contenders.

Where do you get that from?


If they had bigger muscles they'd have more weight to carry over the mountains. There's a reason guys like Kittel - who have big muscles so they'll be better at doing what's their speciality - are notoriously bad at climbing. It's not because they're fat.
Why are you acting as if the GC contenders not having big muscles is somehow a personal offence towards you? Can't you just... Let It Go?
(And don't make me start singing!)


I think we are the ones who should Let It Go because clearly CMP as too much a strong opinion regarding this subject, however wrong, for it to able to be changed on rational terms.
''The battle between Démare and Bouhanni for being France's best sprinter is decided: it's Coquard.'' - BBB
User avatar BigMac
Veteran
 
Posts: 8,319
Joined: 10 Jun 2013 22:10
Location: Estoril, Portugal

Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 13:43

RedheadDane wrote:If they had bigger muscles they'd have more weight to carry over the mountains.

There are two main factors at play here:

A) as you rightly said, muscles in the upper body means dragging more weight up the climbs (disadvantage)
B) bigger upper-body muscles also clear lactate and other metabolic waste from the bloodstream (advantage)

In short, single-climb stages, factor A prevails and lighter climbers have an advantage. In long, multiple-climb stages which push riders' endurance to the limit, factor B prevails and bulkier climbers have the upper hand.

Mountain stages in Grand Tours tend to be long and contain several climbs, so bulkier climbers win out overall.
Check 'em!
User avatar CheckMyPecs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,400
Joined: 14 Mar 2016 09:24
Location: SW Europe

14 Jun 2016 13:45

Funny... most multi-climb stages I've seen have been won by a lighter rider. :)
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,622
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:47
Location: Viking Land! (Aros)

Re:

14 Jun 2016 13:51

RedheadDane wrote:Funny... most multi-climb stages I've seen have been won by a lighter rider. :)

Lighter climbers use less energy on the climbs than the heavier climbers :) that's why they usually do better on multi-climb stages
Alberto we love you
on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
~TourOfSardinia
User avatar LaFlorecita
Veteran
 
Posts: 28,199
Joined: 15 May 2011 09:53
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands

14 Jun 2016 13:58

I have a BMI of over 20. I'll let ya know when I win the Tour de France
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
User avatar Red Rick
Moderator
 
Posts: 10,689
Joined: 20 Feb 2012 18:15
Location: Procrastination nation

Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 14:16

CheckMyPecs wrote:There are two main factors at play here:

A) as you rightly said, muscles in the upper body means dragging more weight up the climbs (disadvantage)
B) bigger upper-body muscles also clear lactate and other metabolic waste from the bloodstream (advantage)

In short, single-climb stages, factor A prevails and lighter climbers have an advantage. In long, multiple-climb stages which push riders' endurance to the limit, factor B prevails and bulkier climbers have the upper hand.

Mountain stages in Grand Tours tend to be long and contain several climbs, so bulkier climbers win out overall.


I've never heard of the notion that bigger upper body muscles increase peak aerobic performance in sports where the work is done with your legs, but it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense also that this effect would outweigh the extra work to be done due to being heavier when the climbs are long, and thus the extra weight debilitating.
User avatar SeriousSam
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,162
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 00:06
Location: Now here

Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 14:45

SeriousSam wrote:I've never heard of the notion that bigger upper body muscles increase peak aerobic performance in sports where the work is done with your legs, but it makes perfect sense.

I posted a supporting link a few pages ago.
Check 'em!
User avatar CheckMyPecs
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,400
Joined: 14 Mar 2016 09:24
Location: SW Europe

Re:

14 Jun 2016 14:51

RedheadDane wrote:Funny... most multi-climb stages I've seen have been won by a lighter rider. :)


Ssshhh
Brullnux
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,378
Joined: 31 Mar 2015 14:41

14 Jun 2016 15:34

How is this discussion still going on? Isn't it obvious Checkmypecks is just trolling by this point? :p
User avatar Maaaaaaaarten
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,293
Joined: 23 Oct 2011 17:47

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Back to top