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Upper-body training for cyclists

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Re: Re:

14 Jun 2016 16:25

CheckMyPecs wrote:
LaFlorecita wrote:Sagan isn't a GT/climbing specialist.

Evans is. Anyway, I believe we both agreed Evans proves it's possible for a rider with higher BMI to win the Tour.

1) Someone asks why riders - especially GT specialists by implication, given that you've been claiming that they should be doing this most of all, despite the fact that it's diametrically opposed to their specialisation - aren't doing this already.
2) You say a few are lifting eg Sagan.
3) It's pointed out that Sagan is not a GT/climbing specialist
4) You bring in Evans, who has never been shown to be doing upper-body training.

Do you see the problem with your logic here?
(In fact, Evans all but directly contradicts your argument: Evans has a high BMI because he has developed musculature for power CLM, which is how he won his Tour. If he had that BMI because he looked like your avatar, he would NOT have won the Tour.)
(Also, BMI sucks.)
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Cannibal72
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Re:

14 Jun 2016 17:20

Maaaaaaaarten wrote:How is this discussion still going on? Isn't it obvious Checkmypecks is just trolling by this point? :p

His persistence is almost admirable at this point. It's like a shotgun approach but nothing hits. A bird-shot approach, if you will. But he just keeps reloading and shooting away, trying to fend off the rationalist hordes, like Bowie at the Alamo. So I salute you, CheckMyPecks, you've really made the grade!
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Re: Re:

15 Jun 2016 07:45

LaFlorecita wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:Funny... most multi-climb stages I've seen have been won by a lighter rider. :)

Lighter climbers use less energy on the climbs than the heavier climbers :) that's why they usually do better on multi-climb stages

Yet, as we know, cycling is about more than just managing your energy budget. VO2 max, haematocrit, metabolic waste clearance and so many other factors influence the equation that it's simplistic to say lighter climbers have the advantage just because they spend marginally less energy.
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15 Jun 2016 08:07

Danny van Poppel pulled off a spectacular handlebar grip yesterday to stay on his bike in the outrageously dangerous finale of the Tour de Suisse stage (a big round of sarcastic applause for the race organisers for needlessly putting the cyclists' life and limb in danger by placing a corner 150 m before the line).

Image

Van Poppel's exploit has been variously described as "defying the laws of physics" and "unbelievable". We all know Danny did not actually defy the laws of physics, so the most scientifically parsimonious explanation is that he used his strong forearms to grip the handlebar hard —a conclusion supported by the picture, where we can see his arms are virtually the only point of contact between Danny and his bike.

I do not want to saturate this post with pictures, so I'll just be posting the link to a picture showing Danny's forearms, but you'll see they are significantly bigger than the average pro cyclist's.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leuven_-_Brabantse_Pijl,_15_april_2015,_vertrek_(B159).JPG
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15 Jun 2016 09:30

It could also be a coincidence.
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15 Jun 2016 09:31

ahaha man give it up. I hope to god you are trolling here
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15 Jun 2016 11:24

You know what Van Poppel isn't? A GC rider.
Nobody ever said bigger upper bodies couldn't be an advantage for sprinters, in fact it might very well be, what with all the boxing they have to engage in. (Not literal boxing, of course!)
I think it's safe to say the GC riders know what they're doing; seems to work pretty well as far as I can see. :)
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Re: Upper-body training for cyclists

15 Jun 2016 15:14

If one was actually interested in discussing and debating the
merits and methods of 'upper-body training for cyclists' with
top researchers and coaches, one should attend the Cycling
Symposium next wednesday in Liverpool:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/cycling-symposium-at-liverpool-john-moores-university-tickets-25716113588
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15 Jun 2016 16:27

No, that's about as much core strength as it is forearm strength. And also forearm strength =/= size. Often when I am try to save a crash if I put more effort into my core I save it better than when I just use forearms.
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Re:

15 Jun 2016 17:48

RedheadDane wrote:You know what Van Poppel isn't? A GC rider.
Nobody ever said bigger upper bodies couldn't be an advantage for sprinters, in fact it might very well be, what with all the boxing they have to engage in. (Not literal boxing, of course!)
I think it's safe to say the GC riders know what they're doing; seems to work pretty well as far as I can see. :)


He's constantly avoiding the obvious. Better to just let him be because he certainly isn't listening or just trolling.
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Re:

15 Jun 2016 18:14

Brullnux wrote:No, that's about as much core strength as it is forearm strength. And also forearm strength =/= size. Often when I am try to save a crash if I put more effort into my core I save it better than when I just use forearms.

And what's the core if not upper-body muscles?
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Re: Re:

15 Jun 2016 18:43

CheckMyPecs wrote:
Brullnux wrote:No, that's about as much core strength as it is forearm strength. And also forearm strength =/= size. Often when I am try to save a crash if I put more effort into my core I save it better than when I just use forearms.

And what's the core if not upper-body muscles?


There is a really big difference in training your core muscles and adding a couple of kgs in upper body muscle mass as you have been suggesting.

I dont believe you will find one person who will disagree that having a strong core is a great asset as a cyclist.
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Re: Re:

15 Jun 2016 19:02

CheckMyPecs wrote:
Brullnux wrote:No, that's about as much core strength as it is forearm strength. And also forearm strength =/= size. Often when I am try to save a crash if I put more effort into my core I save it better than when I just use forearms.

And what's the core if not upper-body muscles?

All cyclists I'm pretty sure do core muscle exercises, as was previously mentioned. Crunches, sit ups and planks, that sort of thing. All without added weights, just bodyweight stuff.
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25 Jun 2016 20:08

Another important link between upper-body muscles and overall cycling performance: testosterone, a hormone known to have a performance-enhancing effect on athletes (NOTE: I'm strictly referring to endogenous testosterone —not Clinic stuff).

Why don't pro cyclists stay in the WonderWoman pose for 2 minutes before and 2 minutes after each training ride? Granted, the name makes it sound ridiculous, but peer-reviewed research (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20855902) has proved that assuming the WonderWoman pose for a couple of minutes increases testosterone levels and decreases cortisol levels by a significant amount (20%-ish).

Image

Setting aside 4 minutes every day for WonderWomaning does not place an excessive burden on a pro cyclist's training schedule. Any thoughts?
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Re:

25 Jun 2016 20:12

CheckMyPecs wrote:
Why don't pro cyclists stay in the WonderWoman pose for 2 minutes before and 2 minutes after each training ride?

Setting aside 4 minutes every day for WonderWomaning does not place an excessive burden on a pro cyclist's training schedule. Any thoughts?

How do you know they don't? Froome doesn't even wait until after the ride - he practices that pose when sprinting at the end of each stage :)
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Re:

26 Jun 2016 05:15

CheckMyPecs wrote:Another important link between upper-body muscles and overall cycling performance: testosterone, a hormone known to have a performance-enhancing effect on athletes (NOTE: I'm strictly referring to endogenous testosterone —not Clinic stuff).

Why don't pro cyclists stay in the WonderWoman pose for 2 minutes before and 2 minutes after each training ride? Granted, the name makes it sound ridiculous, but peer-reviewed research (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20855902) has proved that assuming the WonderWoman pose for a couple of minutes increases testosterone levels and decreases cortisol levels by a significant amount (20%-ish).

Setting aside 4 minutes every day for WonderWomaning does not place an excessive burden on a pro cyclist's training schedule. Any thoughts?


Not so sure that Power Poses make any difference to testosterone or cortisol levels
http://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/a-new-replication-suggests-power-posing-is-a-waste-of-time-but-heres-why-youll-still-be-being-told-to-do-it-for-years-to-come
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Re: Re:

26 Jun 2016 06:01


For me the real flaw in the study you cite was this:

Most of the original power pose findings were tested in a social context, with real experimenters and participants engaging in social tasks. The replication, however, removed all interactions with other people so that they could not unknowingly bias the participants.


Seeing as "power" is a social construct and exerted in relation to others, it seems reasonable to think the testosterone rush and cortisol decrease would only occur if your brain believes you are in a position to exert that power over other members of your "herd".
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27 Jun 2016 08:23

See this much more recent (2015) paper on the subject confirming increased performance after power posing:

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/apl/100/4/1286/
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Re:

27 Jun 2016 16:33

[url=/viewtopic.php?p=1952647#p1952647]CheckMyPecs[/url] wrote:Another important link between upper-body muscles and overall cycling performance: testosterone, a hormone known to have a performance-enhancing effect on athletes (NOTE: I'm strictly referring to endogenous testosterone —not Clinic stuff).

Why don't pro cyclists stay in the WonderWoman pose for 2 minutes before and 2 minutes after each training ride? Granted, the name makes it sound ridiculous, but peer-reviewed research (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20855902) has proved that assuming the WonderWoman pose for a couple of minutes increases testosterone levels and decreases cortisol levels by a significant amount (20%-ish).

Because it would look ridiculous.
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Re: Re:

27 Jun 2016 19:29

Homo Helveticus wrote:Because it would look ridiculous.

So does sticking a piece of sell-o-tape on your nose or wearing kineso tape on every other muscle, yet lots of cyclists do it. The main difference being that there actually exists scientific evidence for power posing boosting testosterone levels.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-superheroes/201107/why-you-may-want-stand-superhero
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