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Why is Solon's letter to Zomegnan about CERA cover up not being reported?

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24 May 2011 23:08

Mrs John Murphy wrote:No you didn't. You made the comment about the samples being in the hands of NAS which had nothing to do with Solon's accusations about RCS.

I know you love Garmin and Vaughters, but puffing up how wonderful their training camp was not news. And it was embarrassing to see it passed off as such. Why not just call it what it was 'product placement in return for future favours'.

If CN is only into re-heating press releases and sucking up to the teams and the authorities then fine, but stop pretending to be a news site.

Kimmage keeps on being proved right.


To the highlighted - well it just goes to show what you know, doesn't it?

I have made plenty of comments against Garmin and Vaughters - I even started a thread that had moderate Garmin fans asking what I had against him. (The answer is nothing, he should tell the truth about his doping)

Being honest I have no idea about the Garmin training article - (I must be a bad fan) because I didn't read it, however it is News about a Cycling team.

Again - Solons accusations about RCS are wrong - they have nothing to do with the samples once the rider has been controlled, nothing.
User avatar Dr. Maserati
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25 May 2011 00:25

Well that's funny because you have no problem in accusing me of having a vendetta against Vaughters, so I see no problem in posting by your own standards in accusing you of having a Vaughters fetish. If you don't like it then you should think more before accusing people of things.

Furthermore, you completely miss the point.

So let me explain it to you using an example.

Lets say there are lots of accusations that posters are being paid to post in favour of certain teams.

Lets say an accusations against you comes my way - now what do I do? Do I sit on it and sweep it under the carpet and pretend I never heard it? Do I investigate and give you the right to reply, rebuttal etc? Do I just post that you are in the pay of Garmin?

Well, personally, I would investigate and I would post and even more so if the accusations could be easily refuted. Why because clearly refuting allegations with more than 'my word vs his word' would actually be a useful thing to do.

Lets say you are right and Solon is wrong. Do you not think that in the current climate of accusations of cover-ups, corruption and collusion between the authorities over doping, that if a rumour of a cover-up could be easily disproved that this is not worth reporting? I think so, and more to the point it would actually help to restore a lot more credibility to cycling than a verbatim report on a Hein Verdruggan press conference.

As was mentioned in the Tondo thread - actually talking about things helps prevent conspiracy theories - sweeping things under the carpet and not discussing them merely causes them.

Dog bites man is news
Dog not biting man in this case is more significant news.
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
User avatar Mrs John Murphy
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25 May 2011 00:53

Mrs John Murphy wrote:Well that's funny because you have no problem in accusing me of having a vendetta against Vaughters, so I see no problem in posting by your own standards in accusing you of having a Vaughters fetish. If you don't like it then you should think more before accusing people of things.

Furthermore, you completely miss the point.

So let me explain it to you using an example.

Lets say there are lots of accusations that posters are being paid to post in favour of certain teams.

Lets say an accusations against you comes my way - now what do I do? Do I sit on it and sweep it under the carpet and pretend I never heard it? Do I investigate and give you the right to reply, rebuttal etc? Do I just post that you are in the pay of Garmin?

Well, personally, I would investigate and I would post and even more so if the accusations could be easily refuted. Why because clearly refuting allegations with more than 'my word vs his word' would actually be a useful thing to do.

Lets say you are right and Solon is wrong. Do you not think that in the current climate of accusations of cover-ups, corruption and collusion between the authorities over doping, that if a rumour of a cover-up could be easily disproved that this is not worth reporting? I think so, and more to the point it would actually help to restore a lot more credibility to cycling than a verbatim report on a Hein Verdruggan press conference.

As was mentioned in the Tondo thread - actually talking about things helps prevent conspiracy theories - sweeping things under the carpet and not discussing them merely causes them.

Dog bites man is news
Dog not biting man in this case is more significant news.

So tomorrows headlines should be:
No spaceship over Giro TT.
Icelandic volcano will not reroute Tour.
Tyler Hamilton is not Arnies mistress.

And your point appears to have changed since your original point when you opened the thread.
Mrs John Murphy wrote:Why has CN ignored Paul Solon's letter to Zomegnan about the failure to re-test the CERA samples from the 2008 Giro and the accusations of a deliberate cover-up?

A PDF of the letter can be found here:

Why the silence? These are very serious accusations? Anyone would think that CN is complicit in sweeping things under the carpet.


Also - I don't use the word vendetta which makes it hard to accused you of that.
I did say that you didn't like JV, and you didn't deny it and your posting history on him confirms it.
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25 May 2011 09:54

Please, do stop lying - you accused me of having something against Vaughters so what comes around goes around. Does he pay you to be his forum house boy or do you do it for the love?

Let me explain things to you simply - because it seems complex arguments are not really doing anything other causing you to have Frodo-esque temper tantrums.

i) Solon's letter contains serious accusations and as a result are worth investigating/reporting/following up. Even more so given the accusations of corruption within the sport.

ii) In doing so - RCS can have the opportunity respond - and to demonstrate why the accusations are wrong.

iii) We get some quality journalism rather than puff pieces about how great Garmin/RS are.

iv) Rumour of corruption either gets shown to have some substance, or it gets shown to be false. A win-win for cycling and cycling fans.

v) It is hardly as if CN is rushed off its feet with other stories. And the final line of my original post holds. It is perfectly reasonable to ask the question - why is there nothing on this story at all, and to ask if it is being swept under the carpet.

vi) Likewise, it is perfectly reasonable to ask just what is CN's relationship with the teams and UCI and is this why it is so uncritical of things like the UCI etc to the extent where it is little more than a mouthpiece for the authorities.

The reality is that CN is being left behind by blogs like NYVelocity, etc who are not hand-in-glove and dependent on the teams and UCI for their stories.

If you are so against the accusations then maybe you ought to take it up with the Flammecast blog where the arguments I've posted here were originally raised.

Anyway, if you are going to be sensible for once then fine, if you are going to go for one of your ****-waving replies then don't bother.

Oh and by the way - it is perfectly reasonable for people to change their minds and shift their positions - it is called being open minded - you should try it.
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
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25 May 2011 11:16

Mrs John Murphy wrote:Please, do stop lying - you accused me of having something against Vaughters so what comes around goes around. Does he pay you to be his forum house boy or do you do it for the love?

I didn't lie - I said you don't like JV, which is accurate.

I didn't take your earlier accusation seriously - but as you insist.
No - I do not work for Garmin, JV the wine industry or anyone associated with him or his team etc.
Nor do I work for CyclingNews, RCS, UCI the NAS nor do I make my living from responding to your posts.

In wishing to make a full and honest disclosure to you because you asked in such a nice way, I will admit that I do own 2 Garmin products. Both are Sat Navs for cars, one is for the US, the other is for Europe - I paid for both myself.

Mrs John Murphy wrote:Let me explain things to you simply - because it seems complex arguments are not really doing anything other causing you to have Frodo-esque temper tantrums.

My simple answer is - I am not the one who is angry.

Mrs John Murphy wrote:i) Solon's letter contains serious accusations and as a result are worth investigating/reporting/following up. Even more so given the accusations of corruption within the sport.

2 minutes spent googling what Solon wrote shows it contains serious errors.

Mrs John Murphy wrote:ii) In doing so - RCS can have the opportunity respond - and to demonstrate why the accusations are wrong.

Why would RCS give oxygen to a non story?

Mrs John Murphy wrote:iii) We get some quality journalism rather than puff pieces about how great Garmin/RS are.

Quality journalism - this is an online cycling site. Your expectations exceed reality.

Mrs John Murphy wrote:iv) Rumour of corruption either gets shown to have some substance, or it gets shown to be false. A win-win for cycling and cycling fans.

On one hand you look for 'quality journalism' and now you want an investigation in to someones false claims.... to show that they are indeed false?
Mrs John Murphy wrote:v) It is hardly as if CN is rushed off its feet with other stories. And the final line of my original post holds. It is perfectly reasonable to ask the question - why is there nothing on this story at all, and to ask if it is being swept under the carpet.

As there is no story - then there is no story to be swept under the carpet.

Mrs John Murphy wrote:vi) Likewise, it is perfectly reasonable to ask just what is CN's relationship with the teams and UCI and is this why it is so uncritical of things like the UCI etc to the extent where it is little more than a mouthpiece for the authorities.

It is reasonable to ask.
But yet again this does not stand up to the claims that you then go on to make - one of the best pieces on doping was covered by CN and was highly critical of the UCI and in particular HV.
From Festina t the Biological Passport, a retrospective.

Mrs John Murphy wrote:The reality is that CN is being left behind by blogs like NYVelocity, etc who are not hand-in-glove and dependent on the teams and UCI for their stories.

NYVC is excellent - but how often do they release 'news' and isn't it often a rehash from other sources? Which is one of your main accusations of CN?

Mrs John Murphy wrote:If you are so against the accusations then maybe you ought to take it up with the Flammecast blog where the arguments I've posted here were originally raised.

I didn't read Flammecast blog, kindof hard to highlight that its wrong when I did not see it.
And no I am not "so against the accusations" - they are wrong, thats all.

Mrs John Murphy wrote:Anyway, if you are going to be sensible for once then fine, if you are going to go for one of your ****-waving replies then don't bother.

Thank you for the right to reply - I hope I have complied with your request but as its **** I am not sure what it was.

BTW - you can answer me any way you wish - I will not tell how you should reply to me. You can be even be rude and continually wrong if you wish.
Mrs John Murphy wrote:Oh and by the way - it is perfectly reasonable for people to change their minds and shift their positions - it is called being open minded - you should try it.

Thanks - would open minded be like my position on JV or Garmin? Where I can appreciate some of the things he does, for example compliment his tactics at Paris Roubaix.
Yet then I can be critical and query his continued refusal to admit his own doping on another thread?

Quite simply - you swallowed the Solon letter without checking it out and went on a CN bashing trip.
Now there is a lot to be critical of CN for but you backed the wrong horse, it is time to admit that and tear up your betting slip.
User avatar Dr. Maserati
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25 May 2011 11:51

That's a lot of effort - shame you don't put the same effort into reading and comprehending things before posting.

You can give it out but you just can't take it. You can give it all the bombast you like, but you missed the point and continue to miss it.

You were the one who started with the personal attacks and the false accusations of vendettas and agendas (always the first choice of the lazy fanboy). If you don't like being called for it then don't do it in the first place. You've made your bed and that's the one you've got to lie in.

You're obviously not bothering to read the longer posts I will try to make my point as clear as I can, using few words as possible.

'Even if an accusations is wrong and flawed, in the current climate it should be covered, it is important to expose the accusation as either flawed or valid.'

The problem is that you are so hung up on 'being right' that you can't see the wood for the trees.
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
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25 May 2011 12:23

Mrs John Murphy wrote:That's a lot of effort - shame you don't put the same effort into reading and comprehending things before posting.

I put the same effort that you did in the post I was responding to.
If you don't like it - then write shorter posts.
Mrs John Murphy wrote:You can give it out but you just can't take it. You can give it all the bombast you like, but you missed the point and continue to miss it.

I did a search with the word "vendetta" against my name - until this thread I never used it.
Mrs John Murphy wrote:You were the one who started with the personal attacks and the false accusations of vendettas and agendas (always the first choice of the lazy fanboy). If you don't like being called for it then don't do it in the first place. You've made your bed and that's the one you've got to lie in.

I said you didn't like JV - nothing personal in that at all.
Are you denying it?

Calling me a "lazy fanboy" is both personal and more importantly false - as I have shown and proved.
Mrs John Murphy wrote:You're obviously not bothering to read the longer posts I will try to make my point as clear as I can, using few words as possible.

Unfortunately I read it all.
Mrs John Murphy wrote:'Even if an accusations is wrong and flawed, in the current climate it should be covered, it is important to expose the accusation as either flawed or valid.'

So CN (or whoever) should chase down every single comment or accusation from every blogger or commentator to show what they say is true or not true?

You are also ignoring that CN has actually reported on these 'CERA samples' at the time and updated the news on it at the time.
Mrs John Murphy wrote:The problem is that you are so hung up on 'being right' that you can't see the wood for the trees.

No, the 'problem' is that I am right.
You're problem is that you cannot admit that (out of all the pieces you could have picked) you chose to roll in behind a piece that is wrong.
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25 May 2011 12:35

You get the personal comments because you were the one who started with that line of argument. To repeat - you've made your bed and that's the one you've got to lie in. No good ****ing crying about it now.

The rest of your 'argument' (and I use the term loosely) I've already answered several times. You missed the point from the start and you're still missing it, but nevermind, at least in your own mind you are king.
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
User avatar Mrs John Murphy
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25 May 2011 13:37

Mrs John Murphy wrote:You get the personal comments because you were the one who started with that line of argument. To repeat - you've made your bed and that's the one you've got to lie in. No good ****ing crying about it now.

To repeat, I said you didn't like JV - nothing personal pointing out the obvious.

I even offered you the opportunity to deny - which was more than you gave me.
Mrs John Murphy wrote:The rest of your 'argument' (and I use the term loosely) I've already answered several times. You missed the point from the start and you're still missing it, but nevermind, at least in your own mind you are king.

Like a lot of what you say - you tend to over play your hand - I never said I was King, I said I was right on this issue.

Your point was obvious from your OP - believe you me I got it.
In fact you articulated it quite well in the title: "Why is Solon's letter to Zomegnan about CERA cover up not being reported?"

Unfortunately for you, the issue 'Solons letter' is wrong - it is no more complicated than that.
User avatar Dr. Maserati
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26 May 2011 10:02

You missed the point at the start of the thread and you keep on missing the point. You're pretty much beyond help. You're displaying a rare strand of reactionary ideological dogmatism and stupidity here. Are you quite sure you don't work for the UCI?

The question was 'why are accusations of corruption not being investigated/reported in CN?' - whether Solon's accusations are valid or not is one for Dirty Works original thread in the clinic, not here. Given that you've missed the point here, and you have largely missed Solon's point you aren't in any position to claim to be 'right' about anything.

Anyway, you keep on keeping on.
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
User avatar Mrs John Murphy
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26 May 2011 19:49

Mrs John Murphy wrote:You missed the point at the start of the thread and you keep on missing the point. You're pretty much beyond help. You're displaying a rare strand of reactionary ideological dogmatism and stupidity here. Are you quite sure you don't work for the UCI?

The question was 'why are accusations of corruption not being investigated/reported in CN?' - whether Solon's accusations are valid or not is one for Dirty Works original thread in the clinic, not here. Given that you've missed the point here, and you have largely missed Solon's point you aren't in any position to claim to be 'right' about anything.

Anyway, you keep on keeping on.


My sincere apologies - of course I should have realized that a thread with the name [color="Plum"]Why is Solon's letter to Zomegnan about CERA cover up not being reported?[/color] - obviously really really meant "why are accusations of corruption not being investigated/reported in CN?".

How silly of me to read your opening post which refers to Solons letter (which is false) and not work out that it really wasn't about Solons letter at all but clearly meant "why are accusations of corruption not being investigated/reported in CN?".

I apologize profusely that when you referred to Solons letter on post 6, post 8, post 13, post 19 etc - I should have of course realized that you were not talking about Solons letter, RCS or the CERA sample from 2008 - but clearly meant, "why are accusations of corruption not being investigated/reported in CN?".

I feel embarrased and unworthy in not spotting your obvious and clear point which is "why are accusations of corruption not being investigated/reported in CN?" - that to assist you I will highlight some recent (all 2011) reports by CN on corruption;

Armstrong era 'corrupt' says ex-mechanic.
McQuaid: There has never been corruption in the UCI.
Schenk encourages independent investigation of UCI.
Verbruggen criticises the media coverage of doping.
Ashenden’s view on Armstrong doping allegations.
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