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Froome Talk Only

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Froome Talk Only

13 Jan 2018 12:26

Poursuivant wrote:
Merckx index wrote:I think all the people who have come out saying the case needs to be resolved quickly have had an effect. In addition to riders, former riders, team directors, et al, there have been at least three major officials, Vegni, Prudhomme, and Di Rocco. Why has Froome decided to take a lab test he probably can’t pass, and if which he doesn’t pass, will almost certainly result in a suspension that sidelines him for the Giro if not the Tour? I think it’s because of the pressure, which has affected CADF, too. The WADA code does say that hearings should be held in a reasonable amount of time, and it wouldn’t surprise me if CADF said to Froome, you either have to have a hearing before the Giro, or take it to CAS. He would probably have a better chance at CAS, but then he would have to ride with the case unsettled, and face all that negative publicity.



Is he definitely doing This test? Can't find anything on web.


Once again, he has to do it as per WADA anti-doping code.

From WADA prohibited list:

The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is not consistent with therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves,
through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the
abnormal result was the consequence of a therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above.
User avatar Rollthedice
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Re: Froome Talk Only

13 Jan 2018 12:45

Rollthedice wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:
Merckx index wrote:I think all the people who have come out saying the case needs to be resolved quickly have had an effect. In addition to riders, former riders, team directors, et al, there have been at least three major officials, Vegni, Prudhomme, and Di Rocco. Why has Froome decided to take a lab test he probably can’t pass, and if which he doesn’t pass, will almost certainly result in a suspension that sidelines him for the Giro if not the Tour? I think it’s because of the pressure, which has affected CADF, too. The WADA code does say that hearings should be held in a reasonable amount of time, and it wouldn’t surprise me if CADF said to Froome, you either have to have a hearing before the Giro, or take it to CAS. He would probably have a better chance at CAS, but then he would have to ride with the case unsettled, and face all that negative publicity.



Is he definitely doing This test? Can't find anything on web.


Once again, he has to do it as per WADA anti-doping code.

From WADA prohibited list:

The presence in urine of salbutamol in excess of 1000 ng/mL or formoterol in excess of 40 ng/mL is not consistent with therapeutic use of the substance and will be considered as an Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) unless the Athlete proves,
through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the
abnormal result was the consequence of a therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above.


Cheers
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 13:23

pastronef wrote:
hfer07 wrote:Fact is that South Africa does not have a credited WADA lab to begin with, and yet, He's capable of putting such kilometers in his legs already? and BTW- Is Froome being "motopaced" or is the "motor" pacing his rides?


he lived, studied, began racing and raced there. his wife has relatives there, he often travelled there in the past. he´s been winter training in South-Africa for the 4th year running, the first 2 years south africa had a working lab. from last year not anymore. every pro-rider fills his whereabouts in the ADAMS system. they know he´s there.


It doesn't have to be either/or - it can be both. Pro cyclists can live in Andorra to live at altitude and be surrounded by HC climbs, because it's a cheap tax haven, and also because the Andorran ADA have been declared non-compliant by WADA.

Same as Mt Teide - it's a wonderful winter training destination where you can climb 2,000m in one go and is only a four hour flight from Britain, and also it's a place where the Spanish ADA rarely bothered to go, and hotel staff allegedly tipped off teams when they did.

If you look at Froome's Strava profile in four years he's only used it for two periods - sporadically in last year's off-season/early season, and now suddenly he's making big consecutive blocks of GT-type workloads public (although without watts). This could be him trying to look transparent (belatedly), or it could be part of the case for the defence if they can establish he clears salbutamol more slowly in GT-type conditions.
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13 Jan 2018 14:35

Despite the protestations of key figures in the cycling world imploring that a decision be reached sooner or later it will fall on deaf ears - Traditionally anti-doping hearings take months if not years - It will run it's course.
yaco
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Re:

13 Jan 2018 14:43

yaco wrote:Despite the protestations of key figures in the cycling world imploring that a decision be reached sooner or later it will fall on deaf ears - Traditionally anti-doping hearings take months if not years - It will run it's course.


You think this will run past the TDF?
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 14:58

Poursuivant wrote:
yaco wrote:Despite the protestations of key figures in the cycling world imploring that a decision be reached sooner or later it will fall on deaf ears - Traditionally anti-doping hearings take months if not years - It will run it's course.


You think this will run past the TDF?


It certainly can. But I can't imagine Prudhomme letting Froome ride any ASO races including the Tour while the case is not closed. Question is what Vegni will do?
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 15:41

Rollthedice wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:
yaco wrote:Despite the protestations of key figures in the cycling world imploring that a decision be reached sooner or later it will fall on deaf ears - Traditionally anti-doping hearings take months if not years - It will run it's course.


You think this will run past the TDF?


It certainly can. But I can't imagine Prudhomme letting Froome ride any ASO races including the Tour while the case is not closed. Question is what Vegni will do?



I think he'd have no choice but not to accept his participation, the situation is still fluid, but my bet is no to the Giro and any ASO races..
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 16:14

vedrafjord wrote:
pastronef wrote:
hfer07 wrote:Fact is that South Africa does not have a credited WADA lab to begin with, and yet, He's capable of putting such kilometers in his legs already? and BTW- Is Froome being "motopaced" or is the "motor" pacing his rides?


he lived, studied, began racing and raced there. his wife has relatives there, he often travelled there in the past. he´s been winter training in South-Africa for the 4th year running, the first 2 years south africa had a working lab. from last year not anymore. every pro-rider fills his whereabouts in the ADAMS system. they know he´s there.


It doesn't have to be either/or - it can be both. Pro cyclists can live in Andorra to live at altitude and be surrounded by HC climbs, because it's a cheap tax haven, and also because the Andorran ADA have been declared non-compliant by WADA.

Same as Mt Teide - it's a wonderful winter training destination where you can climb 2,000m in one go and is only a four hour flight from Britain, and also it's a place where the Spanish ADA rarely bothered to go, and hotel staff allegedly tipped off teams when they did.

If you look at Froome's Strava profile in four years he's only used it for two periods - sporadically in last year's off-season/early season, and now suddenly he's making big consecutive blocks of GT-type workloads public (although without watts). This could be him trying to look transparent (belatedly), or it could be part of the case for the defence if they can establish he clears salbutamol more slowly in GT-type conditions.


Im not convinced he's doing much different to previous years winter training, but i think there's a bit of psychology behind Froomes return to Strava to post his rides for all his rivals to see.

One things for sure, the training he's doing is what you'd expect for a big season of GT racing, not someone who thinks he's going to be sitting out the next 9 months...
brownbobby
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 16:47

brownbobby wrote:
vedrafjord wrote:
pastronef wrote:
hfer07 wrote:Fact is that South Africa does not have a credited WADA lab to begin with, and yet, He's capable of putting such kilometers in his legs already? and BTW- Is Froome being "motopaced" or is the "motor" pacing his rides?


he lived, studied, began racing and raced there. his wife has relatives there, he often travelled there in the past. he´s been winter training in South-Africa for the 4th year running, the first 2 years south africa had a working lab. from last year not anymore. every pro-rider fills his whereabouts in the ADAMS system. they know he´s there.


It doesn't have to be either/or - it can be both. Pro cyclists can live in Andorra to live at altitude and be surrounded by HC climbs, because it's a cheap tax haven, and also because the Andorran ADA have been declared non-compliant by WADA.

Same as Mt Teide - it's a wonderful winter training destination where you can climb 2,000m in one go and is only a four hour flight from Britain, and also it's a place where the Spanish ADA rarely bothered to go, and hotel staff allegedly tipped off teams when they did.

If you look at Froome's Strava profile in four years he's only used it for two periods - sporadically in last year's off-season/early season, and now suddenly he's making big consecutive blocks of GT-type workloads public (although without watts). This could be him trying to look transparent (belatedly), or it could be part of the case for the defence if they can establish he clears salbutamol more slowly in GT-type conditions.


Im not convinced he's doing much different to previous years winter training, but i think there's a bit of psychology behind Froomes return to Strava to post his rides for all his rivals to see.

One things for sure, the training he's doing is what you'd expect for a big season of GT racing, not someone who thinks he's going to be sitting out the next 9 months...



yes, not really different from Pinot with 1790 km in 2018
https://www.strava.com/pros/1603067
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13 Jan 2018 16:56

I'm pretty sure that training is normal. It's january already and the build up toward the first races should already be quite far along. Not to mention that Froome wants to peak in may this time.

I'm actually thinking of the possibility he wants to thump everyone in the Giro and then look at "but look at how hard I trained in january already"
Kwibus wrote:So much questions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re:

13 Jan 2018 17:19

The Dawg has done the Tour Down Under last two years no way have Sky shifted off that programme without external pressure

And for years folk have been wondering how the Dawg rides that skinny all year round we're starting to get some answers eh

Busting the Dawg for salbutamol is like busting Al Capone for tax dodging

New sheriff in town just gotta get em off the streets
Wiggo's Package
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 17:37

Wiggo's Package wrote:The Dawg has done the Tour Down Under last two years no way have Sky shifted off that programme without external pressure

And for years folk have been wondering how the Dawg rides that skinny all year round we're starting to get some answers eh

Busting the Dawg for salbutamol is like busting Al Capone for tax dodging

New sheriff in town just gotta get em off the streets


He's doing the Giro this year, of course his programme is going to be different

and I don't think he rode the TDU last year anyway did he?
brownbobby
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 17:52

Poursuivant wrote:
yaco wrote:Despite the protestations of key figures in the cycling world imploring that a decision be reached sooner or later it will fall on deaf ears - Traditionally anti-doping hearings take months if not years - It will run it's course.


You think this will run past the TDF?


Probably - Though I doubt Prudhomme can guarantee Froome's safety in the TDF which means his starting is problematic - And especially so if more cycling figures speak to the media.
yaco
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Re:

13 Jan 2018 17:55

Rollthedice wrote:Olaf Ludwig, former team boss of Jan Ullrich says:


"I'm not a medical doctor, but I can not imagine how Froome wants to explain double the legal value, you can not suspend the Italian Ulissi years ago in a similar case and do nothing with Froome. Especially because he has always stood for transparency"


:lol: :lol: :lol: And sadly, You and others actually believe that?
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 17:57

Poursuivant wrote:
yaco wrote:Despite the protestations of key figures in the cycling world imploring that a decision be reached sooner or later it will fall on deaf ears - Traditionally anti-doping hearings take months if not years - It will run it's course.


You think this will run past the TDF?



Yes, and if they have their way, it will all be swept under the rug, so he can be ball washed once again by all of his adoring, gullible fans, and the media.
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 18:05

brownbobby wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:The Dawg has done the Tour Down Under last two years no way have Sky shifted off that programme without external pressure

And for years folk have been wondering how the Dawg rides that skinny all year round we're starting to get some answers eh

Busting the Dawg for salbutamol is like busting Al Capone for tax dodging

New sheriff in town just gotta get em off the streets


He's doing the Giro this year, of course his programme is going to be different

and I don't think he rode the TDU last year anyway did he?


Is he doing the Giro though? His bluff has been called

Why else is he going into the lab now (assuming that report is correct)?

And yes he did the TDU last 2 years
Wiggo's Package
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 18:27

Wiggo's Package wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:The Dawg has done the Tour Down Under last two years no way have Sky shifted off that programme without external pressure

And for years folk have been wondering how the Dawg rides that skinny all year round we're starting to get some answers eh

Busting the Dawg for salbutamol is like busting Al Capone for tax dodging

New sheriff in town just gotta get em off the streets


He's doing the Giro this year, of course his programme is going to be different

and I don't think he rode the TDU last year anyway did he?


Is he doing the Giro though? His bluff has been called

Why else is he going into the lab now (assuming that report is correct)?

And yes he did the TDU last 2 years


As I thought, no he didn't....


Team Sky for 2017 Tour Down Under

Owain Doull (GBr)
Sebastian Henao (Col)
Sergio Henao (Col)
Luke Rowe (GBr)
Ian Stannard (GBr)
Geraint Thomas (GBr)
Danny Van Poppel (Ned)

He rode the Herald Sun Tour, maybe that's what you were thinking of?

As for what will happen with the Giro; who knows, at this stage your guess is as good as mine, but his race schedule for 2018 is still most likely tailored around the premise that he will.
brownbobby
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 19:01

Wiggo's Package wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
Wiggo's Package wrote:The Dawg has done the Tour Down Under last two years no way have Sky shifted off that programme without external pressure

And for years folk have been wondering how the Dawg rides that skinny all year round we're starting to get some answers eh

Busting the Dawg for salbutamol is like busting Al Capone for tax dodging

New sheriff in town just gotta get em off the streets


He's doing the Giro this year, of course his programme is going to be different

and I don't think he rode the TDU last year anyway did he?


Is he doing the Giro though? His bluff has been called

Why else is he going into the lab now (assuming that report is correct)?

And yes he did the TDU last 2 years


you should follow him more closely ;)

he rode the Herald Sun Tour last 2 years, not TDU
pastronef
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 19:17

vedrafjord wrote:
pastronef wrote:
hfer07 wrote:Fact is that South Africa does not have a credited WADA lab to begin with, and yet, He's capable of putting such kilometers in his legs already? and BTW- Is Froome being "motopaced" or is the "motor" pacing his rides?


he lived, studied, began racing and raced there. his wife has relatives there, he often travelled there in the past. he´s been winter training in South-Africa for the 4th year running, the first 2 years south africa had a working lab. from last year not anymore. every pro-rider fills his whereabouts in the ADAMS system. they know he´s there.


It doesn't have to be either/or - it can be both. Pro cyclists can live in Andorra to live at altitude and be surrounded by HC climbs, because it's a cheap tax haven, and also because the Andorran ADA have been declared non-compliant by WADA.

Same as Mt Teide - it's a wonderful winter training destination where you can climb 2,000m in one go and is only a four hour flight from Britain, and also it's a place where the Spanish ADA rarely bothered to go, and hotel staff allegedly tipped off teams when they did.

If you look at Froome's Strava profile in four years he's only used it for two periods - sporadically in last year's off-season/early season, and now suddenly he's making big consecutive blocks of GT-type workloads public (although without watts). This could be him trying to look transparent (belatedly), or it could be part of the case for the defence if they can establish he clears salbutamol more slowly in GT-type conditions.


I do not recall the specifics, but didn't South Africa declare it was a violation of human rights (or some such nonsense) to test non nationals? Meaning the UCI would have to send their own people instead of asking the NGO to do it.
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Re: Re:

13 Jan 2018 20:20

Wiggo's Package wrote:The Dawg has done the Tour Down Under last two years no way have Sky shifted off that programme without external pressure

And for years folk have been wondering how the Dawg rides that skinny all year round we're starting to get some answers eh

Busting the Dawg for salbutamol is like busting Al Capone for tax dodging

New sheriff in town just gotta get em off the streets

LIES!!!!!!!!
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