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Brits don't dope?

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Re: Brits don't dope?

18 Sep 2018 12:06

samhocking wrote:
Archibald wrote:
Benotti69 wrote:
samhocking wrote:You simply can't get the TUE without medical evidence of having asthma. Without that attached to your TUE Application it will simply be rejected. Now, we can argue his statement is untrue that he's not had asthma since childhood or we can argue his team doctor and GP/Consultant faked lung function tests and that he's had it since childhood and we can argue UCI ignored everything or accepted everything using some evidence, but if that's all true, then 'everyone' in the peloton can and would do the same, if such fakery easily gains them an advantage in Grand Tours so still doesn't explain Yate's success over them anyway.


How does a rider prove they have asthma. Oh yeah the team doctor paid for the team they ride for. Who accpets they have asthma, oh yeah the UCI, that organisation that hates doping and cheating!

Please Sam leave it out mate!

I would love to see Yates success explained how he, the cleanest of clean (oops please ignore ban and asthma), beat the dopers over 3 weeks.......probably wanted it more, trained harder, marginal gains, more focus, yada yada yada

I heard he was on his bike 6hrs a day...


I think you're forgetting UCI don't know the result and rider name, until it comes back from WADA lab positive. All UCI knew was Yates TUE didn't match his Terbutaline declaration on his sample and what WADA lab found in that sample. All we know is team doctor failed to include Terbutaline on the TUE. Either he was given a Terbutaline inhaler instead of a Salbutomol one that wouldn't require a TUE, or most likely the TUE was for a steroid preventer and doctor simply didn't add the Terbutaline reliever on the form along with it that's all.


Yes, the UCI been busting lots of big name riders, not.

Lots of conjecture is that statement.
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Re: Re:

18 Sep 2018 18:39

samhocking wrote:
lartiste wrote:[quote="

You are not correct, next time try to read first, e.g.: https://spravy.pravda.sk/ekonomika/clanok/443081-dane-zaplatia-doma-uz-aj-sagan-ci-hantuchova/


That amendment is simply adding residency in Slovakia, it's not forcing you to pay tax. As long as Sagan doesn't reside there, he won't pay any tax and 183 days still applies.


You did not get the point, you said that no one cares, this article is showing that you are not correct, that at least in Slovakia, they care. Second even you conclusions are not correct since the article says, that there is no agreement against double taxation between Monaco and Slovakia, therefore if he will stay one night in his flat in Slovakia, he will be taxed there.

But it is not most probably big issue for him.
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Re: Brits don't dope?

18 Sep 2018 18:42

rick james wrote:
lartiste wrote:
rick james wrote:
ngent41 wrote:
rick james wrote:[quote="[url=<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=2313236#p2313236</span>]lartiste[/url]"

yes the mighty Great Britain and Northern Ireland , but he is African, he was born in Africa....class him Anglo Saxon all you want but he isn't



I am not sure where do you come from, since it most probably can influence your point of view. I will try to explain you basic principles concerning nationality and citizenship. In US it is based on soil (place of birth), but in Europe (with exception of Ireland if I remember correctly) on blood (nationality of parents). So the answer is here in wikipedia: "Froome, whose parents are British, was born in Kenya and grew up there and in South Africa." Simple as that.

Wiki you say.... that’s me convinced!


He is Kenyan


Arguments or hearsay?
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18 Sep 2018 19:11

Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.
samhocking
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Re:

19 Sep 2018 07:25

samhocking wrote:Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.


By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year
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Re: Brits don't dope?

19 Sep 2018 07:27

It's the fool trolling is normal.
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Re: Re:

19 Sep 2018 09:14

Winterfold wrote:
samhocking wrote:Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.


By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year


Considering the Daily Mail campaigned for Budd's father to apply for British Citizenship for her in the first place so she could compete and the British public largely supported that, I would say it's simply your personality, not nationality that decides who is liked more than others by British public really. For me, if your parents and grandparents are British, you are British, regardless of where you mum gave birth to you.
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Re: Re:

19 Sep 2018 10:57

samhocking wrote:
Winterfold wrote:
samhocking wrote:Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.


By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year


Considering the Daily Mail campaigned for Budd's father to apply for British Citizenship for her in the first place so she could compete and the British public largely supported that, I would say it's simply your personality, not nationality that decides who is liked more than others by British public really. For me, if your parents and grandparents are British, you are British, regardless of where you mum gave birth to you.


Not according to the Government though. I'm unsure on Froome's specific case, but children born to parents who are themselves British by descent require additional paperwork and registration if their parents want them to be British citizens, it isn't assumed.
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Re: Re:

19 Sep 2018 12:03

King Boonen wrote:
samhocking wrote:
Winterfold wrote:
samhocking wrote:Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.


By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year


Considering the Daily Mail campaigned for Budd's father to apply for British Citizenship for her in the first place so she could compete and the British public largely supported that, I would say it's simply your personality, not nationality that decides who is liked more than others by British public really. For me, if your parents and grandparents are British, you are British, regardless of where you mum gave birth to you.


Not according to the Government though. I'm unsure on Froome's specific case, but children born to parents who are themselves British by descent require additional paperwork and registration if their parents want them to be British citizens, it isn't assumed.


I suspect that if he were not British he would not be holding a British passport, it's really as simple as that, so that anyone who doubts it is being a bit silly. Anyone who wants to refer to the law on this (and it's the law applicable to British nationality and not claims for other nationalities) can look at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/2
And it's quite right that you can't prove any nationality without applying for it.
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Re: Re:

19 Sep 2018 12:28

wrinklyvet wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
samhocking wrote:
Winterfold wrote:
samhocking wrote:Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.


By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year


Considering the Daily Mail campaigned for Budd's father to apply for British Citizenship for her in the first place so she could compete and the British public largely supported that, I would say it's simply your personality, not nationality that decides who is liked more than others by British public really. For me, if your parents and grandparents are British, you are British, regardless of where you mum gave birth to you.


Not according to the Government though. I'm unsure on Froome's specific case, but children born to parents who are themselves British by descent require additional paperwork and registration if their parents want them to be British citizens, it isn't assumed.


I suspect that if he were not British he would not be holding a British passport, it's really as simple as that, so that anyone who doubts it is being a bit silly. Anyone who wants to refer to the law on this (and it's the law applicable to British nationality and not claims for other nationalities) can look at https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/2
And it's quite right that you can't prove any nationality without applying for it.


Your post seems irrelevant to mine, I'm guessing you misunderstand it. I was specifically replying to the bolded part of SH's post, I really don't care what nationality people think Chris Froome is.
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19 Sep 2018 13:17

@King Boonen - Not intended as any criticism of you but as a general comment on the subject of this string of posts to which you had responded, which has running through it on the part of some posters a general doubt about Froome's nationality. I can't see the point of that. Obama suffered from a bit of this on other facts and circumstances. What you said was right, of course, but why go round and round the houses on this (as I know has been done before)? I like to read the Clinic even if i don't always post. It seems to have turned lately to very thin gruel. I look forward to seeing new material. Too much to hope that anyone can put this issue to bed. ;-)
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Re:

19 Sep 2018 14:17

wrinklyvet wrote:@King Boonen - Not intended as any criticism of you but as a general comment on the subject of this string of posts to which you had responded, which has running through it on the part of some posters a general doubt about Froome's nationality. I can't see the point of that. Obama suffered from a bit of this on other facts and circumstances. What you said was right, of course, but why go round and round the houses on this (as I know has been done before)? I like to read the Clinic even if i don't always post. It seems to have turned lately to very thin gruel. I look forward to seeing new material. Too much to hope that anyone can put this issue to bed. ;-)


I usually correct things that I read in the clinic which are factually wrong, whether I'm interested in the discussion or not. In this case there are very specific guidelines for British citizenship, just like there are for any other country. I had a classmate at school who was born abroad and whose parents were both British by descent and they had to go through the additional paperwork to prove they had lived in the UK for a certain amount of time and whatever else is required.

As I said, I don't really care what nationality people think Froome is and this alls seems to be some kind of meta-argument over the fact three Brits have won the three tours and how this might tie in with the idea of general corruption within cycling and so on that is now meandering dangerously down a track towards xenophobic discussions if people aren't careful.

In specific terms, Froome holds a British passport and is therefore a British citizen. What people "think" is British seems wholly irrelevant to me, but I'm not going to stop people discussing it within the rules of the forum.
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19 Sep 2018 14:21

:lol: :lol: :lol: The guy was Kenyan for as long as needed to be able to ride international events and thereby get onto a European-based Pro-Conti team. When talk started of the BC road team that became Sky (and would clearly need British riders to justify its existence) then he took up the British citizenship that he was always entitled to. At worst those were rational/cynical career-focused decisions. From a clinic point of view what's relevant is that he was not a BC Academy/WCPP/ODP/Olympic track rider (even Yates having been a points race world champion) so isn't part of the system, not a lifer/insider in the way that Wiggins and Thomas are.
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Re: Re:

19 Sep 2018 14:30

Winterfold wrote:
samhocking wrote:Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.


By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year



By birth he is Kenyan as he was born there
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Re:

19 Sep 2018 14:34

VO2 Max wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: The guy was Kenyan for as long as needed to be able to ride international events and thereby get onto a European-based Pro-Conti team. When talk started of the BC road team that became Sky (and would clearly need British riders to justify its existence) then he took up the British citizenship that he was always entitled to. At worst those were rational/cynical career-focused decisions. From a clinic point of view what's relevant is that he was not a BC Academy/WCPP/ODP/Olympic track rider (even Yates having been a points race world champion) so isn't part of the system, not a lifer/insider in the way that Wiggins and Thomas are.


Again, based on what Froome has said, this is wrong:

"Froome began his international career with Kenya at the 2007 World time trial championships but a chance meeting with Great Britain coach Rod Ellingworth at the Giro delle Regione in 2007, where he won a stage, changed all that. As Froome recalls: “Although I was riding under the Kenyan flag I made it clear that I had always carried a British passport and felt British. It was then tha talked about racing under the Union Jack, and we stayed in touch.”"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/9390834/Tour-de-France-2012-Chris-Froome-at-the-top-as-the-race-hits-high-notes-in-cruel-mountain-stages.html
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Re: Re:

19 Sep 2018 15:57

rick james wrote:
Winterfold wrote:
samhocking wrote:Froome is British by descent, Kenyan by emigration, it's as simple as that. It doesn't matter where he was born, where he grew up or where he lives. If he has descended from a parent who is a British Citizen you are British. His British Grandparents emigrated to Kenya, so he is also Kenyan, just like if anyone emigrated to another Country.


By domicile, he is Kenyan.

By birth, he is British.

Culturally, he is a white african who lives in Monaco.

Wiggo might have been born in Belgium to an Aussie father, but culturally, he is as 'British' as Paul Weller or David Beckham (Or me, who was born in the States, but no one believes it).

So if you ask me, how many Brits have won a GT, I think three have won one each. That's not rational, it's emotional.

This probably explains why the British public have warmed to him in the way they warmed to Zola Budd :lol:

This is only really important when it comes to things like Sports Personality of the Year



By birth he is Kenyan as he was born there


As you know from our earlier discussion, this is invalid though in Europe. And he is not claiming to be American, so European principles shall apply.
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19 Sep 2018 16:50

I never cared for froome...in fact, I am convinced he's a lucky doper. yet, people should, despite the various ways available, allow the Dawg to cast the last word on his nationality.

Being a Euro mutt myself growing up in several countries and living in many more I always wondered wtf strangers seemed to know more about my ethnicity/nationality than I myself...
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Re:

20 Sep 2018 06:40

python wrote:I never cared for froome...in fact, I am convinced he's a lucky doper. yet, people should, despite the various ways available, allow the Dawg to cast the last word on his nationality.

Being a Euro mutt myself growing up in several countries and living in many more I always wondered wtf strangers seemed to know more about my ethnicity/nationality than I myself...



what's an unlucky doper?
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Re: Re:

20 Sep 2018 06:59

rick james wrote:
python wrote:I never cared for froome...in fact, I am convinced he's a lucky doper. yet, people should, despite the various ways available, allow the Dawg to cast the last word on his nationality.

Being a Euro mutt myself growing up in several countries and living in many more I always wondered wtf strangers seemed to know more about my ethnicity/nationality than I myself...



what's an unlucky doper?


one who gets caught (and sanctioned)
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Re: Re:

20 Sep 2018 07:37

rick james wrote:
python wrote:I never cared for froome...in fact, I am convinced he's a lucky doper. yet, people should, despite the various ways available, allow the Dawg to cast the last word on his nationality.

Being a Euro mutt myself growing up in several countries and living in many more I always wondered wtf strangers seemed to know more about my ethnicity/nationality than I myself...



what's an unlucky doper?


LRP?
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