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Ketone drinks

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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08 Oct 2016 15:24

Professional athletes use any any kind of supplements, which often verge into shades of grey, and which are weird and wacky to gain an advantage - I doubt supplements have the same effects on each rider - So it's very much a walk into the wild.
yaco
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08 Oct 2016 15:42

if we're interested in anecdotes, I've tried a wide variety of dietary strategies (for weeks-months at a time):
- pescatarian
- ketogenic
- carb back-loading
- various IF protocols
- free-for-all

My cholesterol got better when I switched out carbs for dietary fat, but as far as athletic performance, body composition, or subjective feelings, no diet really made much difference. I've concluded that humans are incredibly adaptable and pretty much any diet will do the trick. Kind of puts paid to the adage of "you are what you eat" --- I'd instead say that "you are what you are, despite what you eat".
proffate
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Re: Ketone drinks

06 Jul 2018 11:26

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2018/07/05/tour-de-france-riders-ready-fuel-ketones-mysterious-energy/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw


HVMN, a San Francisco-based company, was granted a commercial licence to manufacture the world’s first ketone ester drink, HVMN Ketone, back in April. And its chief executive Geoff Woo has told Telegraph Sport that “seven teams will be drinking ketones as part of their nutrition strategy” at this Tour.
pastronef
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Re: Ketone drinks

06 Jul 2018 12:17

pastronef wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2018/07/05/tour-de-france-riders-ready-fuel-ketones-mysterious-energy/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw


HVMN, a San Francisco-based company, was granted a commercial licence to manufacture the world’s first ketone ester drink, HVMN Ketone, back in April. And its chief executive Geoff Woo has told Telegraph Sport that “seven teams will be drinking ketones as part of their nutrition strategy” at this Tour.


Not Sky, no, they told us they dont know what keytones are. No Sky are purely bread and water with a drop of pinapple juice. :D
User avatar Benotti69
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12 Oct 2018 09:43

There was an interesting article in Telegraph about it.They asked several teams and Team Sky, Mitchelton-Scott, Groupama-FDJ, Dimension Data and Sunweb all denied that their riders would be using synthetic ketones in Tour this year and only BMC declined to comment. Sky's nutritionist James Morton who was interviewed about then claimed Froome didn't use synthetic ketones and that they use nutrition, not ketone ester as the science isn't yet proven.
"There are a few studies out there which suggest that different forms of Ketones produce different results. The Ketone ester is very different to Ketone salts, for instance.
The evidence for using Ketone ester – which is this drink they’ve created – seems to be that it reduces the emphasis on carbohydrate metabolism. On the one hand, this could be a good thing as it may spare muscle glycogen use meaning you have more for later. On the other, if it surpasses the ability of muscle to use carbohydrate as a fuel then this could really be detrimental to performance. So, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing is too early to say."
samhocking
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Re: Ketone drinks

12 Oct 2018 11:00

Benotti69 wrote:
pastronef wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2018/07/05/tour-de-france-riders-ready-fuel-ketones-mysterious-energy/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw


HVMN, a San Francisco-based company, was granted a commercial licence to manufacture the world’s first ketone ester drink, HVMN Ketone, back in April. And its chief executive Geoff Woo has told Telegraph Sport that “seven teams will be drinking ketones as part of their nutrition strategy” at this Tour.


Not Sky, no, they told us they dont know what keytones are. No Sky are purely bread and water with a drop of pinapple juice. :D


That's not true. I have heard that some of their riders actually use - gasp! - synthetic multivitamins.

(Joking aside, this newfound focus on ketones as a fuel source and whether they are "natural" or synthetic is ridiculous.)
acoggan
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12 Oct 2018 11:06

By synthetic, they just mean are they using the ketone ester rather than the naturally-derived ketone salts and/or via ketogenic diet.
samhocking
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12 Oct 2018 11:16

I thought Froome was seen downing a purple/pinkish bottle at the Giro which some sleuths identified as a ketone brand?
User avatar LaFlorecita
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12 Oct 2018 11:58

Given the marketing from SIS and Sky after it, I remember it being SIS Beta Fuel. At least in Giro. Not sure about Tour this year though?
samhocking
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Re: Ketone drinks

18 Oct 2018 06:54

ClassicomanoLuigi wrote:
No it isn't. The biochemistry of ketosis has been known for decades.

First clause of that same sentence said "the concept of ketosis is not new..."
Second clause could have been better-phrased, thank you.
What it was getting at is
- they have shown this cellular pathway could be useful for proverbial 'marginal-gains' in short-duration cycling events, on the order of less than an hour.
- They haven't demonstrated efficacy at longer durations, and it seems doubtful that it would make a difference in performance in a single stage of a GT event, let alone in an overall multi-stage tour race
- Concur with those doubts, raised in other comments, on the thread above

I have a degree in biomedical research, including human pharmacology and physiology, and and would be glad to discuss particular approaches to the subject. It's interesting, isn't it ?


I know your post is from 2 years ago, but wanted to ask your opinion since I do find the subject interesting too. I do multi day fasts occasionally. While I don't do it, for ketosis, it does of course involve getting into ketosis, for a few days. What is your opinion of using glycogen stores vs using ketones?
User avatar The Hitch
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Re:

18 Oct 2018 07:08

proffate wrote:if we're interested in anecdotes, I've tried a wide variety of dietary strategies (for weeks-months at a time):
- pescatarian
- ketogenic
- carb back-loading
- various IF protocols
- free-for-all

My cholesterol got better when I switched out carbs for dietary fat, but as far as athletic performance, body composition, or subjective feelings, no diet really made much difference. I've concluded that humans are incredibly adaptable and pretty much any diet will do the trick. Kind of puts paid to the adage of "you are what you eat" --- I'd instead say that "you are what you are, despite what you eat".


I don't agree with that entirely. Free for all surely can't be just as good as diets which focus on healthy living.

Sure a lot of the diets are fads. But that doesn't mean that the science is wrong when it shows that sugar is bad or that fast food high fat with high carb may be bad or that too much alcohol is bad or that some vitamins are important.

I used to eat anything that tasted good and now I focus on foods with vitamins and micros and protein etc. I'm not going to claim I necessarily feel better, I was healthy then and am healthy now. But in the long term, surely its better to give the body food it actually needs to be efficient and cut down on the stuff that it doesn't need and has to figure out what to do with.
User avatar The Hitch
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