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General Doping Thread.

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Re:

07 Jan 2019 03:24

Robert5091 wrote:90 year old busted!
https://www.usada.org/carl-grove-accepts-public-warning/
USADA announced today that Carl Grove, of Bristol, Ind., an athlete in the sport of cycling, has accepted a public warning for his anti-doping rule violations.

Grove, 90, tested positive for epitrenbolone, which is a metabolite of the prohibited substance trenbolone, as the result of an in-competition urine sample he provided on July 11, 2018 after setting a world record at the Masters Track National Championships. While investigating the source of his positive test, it was also determined that a supplement Grove was using prior to July 11, 2018 was contaminated with clomiphene.

During USADA’s investigation into the circumstances of his case, Grove provided USADA with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10, 2018.

Before disclosing his consumption of meat on the evening prior to submitting his July 11 sample, Grove provided USADA with information about supplements he had used, none of which listed clomiphene or any other prohibited substances on the Supplement Facts label. Detailed analysis subsequently conducted on the supplement by the WADA-accredited laboratory in Salt Lake City, Utah, confirmed the presence of clomiphene in one of the supplements.


Apparently he was the only competitor in that age group - Seems strange you would waste money on a drug test in this situation.
yaco
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Re:

07 Jan 2019 08:36


The article misses some important information. According to this article in French, the initial 1-year ban has been meanwhile reduced to 1 month and ultimately cancelled after it was established that correct procedure notifying him of the control was not observed, whatever that means. Probably organizer's fail to give him the right instructions. The current news is only that the court agreed that Bassons deserves damages for having to go through those unlawful procedures initiated by the Federation.
PeterB
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Re: Re:

07 Jan 2019 08:42

yaco wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:90 year old busted!
https://www.usada.org/carl-grove-accepts-public-warning/
USADA announced today that Carl Grove, of Bristol, Ind., an athlete in the sport of cycling, has accepted a public warning for his anti-doping rule violations.

Grove, 90, tested positive for epitrenbolone, which is a metabolite of the prohibited substance trenbolone, as the result of an in-competition urine sample he provided on July 11, 2018 after setting a world record at the Masters Track National Championships. While investigating the source of his positive test, it was also determined that a supplement Grove was using prior to July 11, 2018 was contaminated with clomiphene.

During USADA’s investigation into the circumstances of his case, Grove provided USADA with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10, 2018.

Before disclosing his consumption of meat on the evening prior to submitting his July 11 sample, Grove provided USADA with information about supplements he had used, none of which listed clomiphene or any other prohibited substances on the Supplement Facts label. Detailed analysis subsequently conducted on the supplement by the WADA-accredited laboratory in Salt Lake City, Utah, confirmed the presence of clomiphene in one of the supplements.


Apparently he was the only competitor in that age group - Seems strange you would waste money on a drug test in this situation.


Probably not unusual where a national record had been set, or more precisely appeared to have been set subject to testing.
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Re:

07 Jan 2019 19:56

Robert5091 wrote:90 year old busted!
https://www.usada.org/carl-grove-accepts-public-warning/
USADA announced today that Carl Grove, of Bristol, Ind., an athlete in the sport of cycling, has accepted a public warning for his anti-doping rule violations.

Grove, 90, tested positive for epitrenbolone, which is a metabolite of the prohibited substance trenbolone, as the result of an in-competition urine sample he provided on July 11, 2018 after setting a world record at the Masters Track National Championships. While investigating the source of his positive test, it was also determined that a supplement Grove was using prior to July 11, 2018 was contaminated with clomiphene.

During USADA’s investigation into the circumstances of his case, Grove provided USADA with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10, 2018.

Before disclosing his consumption of meat on the evening prior to submitting his July 11 sample, Grove provided USADA with information about supplements he had used, none of which listed clomiphene or any other prohibited substances on the Supplement Facts label. Detailed analysis subsequently conducted on the supplement by the WADA-accredited laboratory in Salt Lake City, Utah, confirmed the presence of clomiphene in one of the supplements.


Stupid, they are spending money and other resources to test 90 years old twice in consecutive days. Sorry, but even if he took whole apotheke, he is still incredible and only one in his category. :rolleyes:

I would like to be in such condition if I will become one day 90 .... .
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Re: Re:

07 Jan 2019 22:09

lartiste wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:90 year old busted!
https://www.usada.org/carl-grove-accepts-public-warning/
USADA announced today that Carl Grove, of Bristol, Ind., an athlete in the sport of cycling, has accepted a public warning for his anti-doping rule violations.

Grove, 90, tested positive for epitrenbolone, which is a metabolite of the prohibited substance trenbolone, as the result of an in-competition urine sample he provided on July 11, 2018 after setting a world record at the Masters Track National Championships. While investigating the source of his positive test, it was also determined that a supplement Grove was using prior to July 11, 2018 was contaminated with clomiphene.

During USADA’s investigation into the circumstances of his case, Grove provided USADA with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10, 2018.

Before disclosing his consumption of meat on the evening prior to submitting his July 11 sample, Grove provided USADA with information about supplements he had used, none of which listed clomiphene or any other prohibited substances on the Supplement Facts label. Detailed analysis subsequently conducted on the supplement by the WADA-accredited laboratory in Salt Lake City, Utah, confirmed the presence of clomiphene in one of the supplements.


Stupid, they are spending money and other resources to test 90 years old twice in consecutive days. Sorry, but even if he took whole apotheke, he is still incredible and only one in his category. :rolleyes:

I would like to be in such condition if I will become one day 90 .... .



As a much younger veteran cyclist than him can sympathise with that view. I also think that as his tainted meat explanation was considered to be more likely than not the right explanation he has been unfortunate.

However, on reading the report again I see he had set a world record (or would have done but for the failed test). Just because nobody else at the time was taking him on does not mean that his record could stand. Other competitors may in due course reach a similar age and want to go for the record. Records are pointless if they are not demonstrably reliable. So what then happened was inevitable and sympathy for him can't alter that.
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Re: Re:

07 Jan 2019 23:55

PeterB wrote:

The article misses some important information. According to this article in French, the initial 1-year ban has been meanwhile reduced to 1 month and ultimately cancelled after it was established that correct procedure notifying him of the control was not observed, whatever that means. Probably organizer's fail to give him the right instructions. The current news is only that the court agreed that Bassons deserves damages for having to go through those unlawful procedures initiated by the Federation.


Thanks. Yes the article was missing a lot of information.
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Re: General Doping Thread.

08 Jan 2019 04:11

I had no idea that Chris Horner was still racing.
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Re: Re:

08 Jan 2019 08:37

Koronin wrote:
PeterB wrote:

The article misses some important information. According to this article in French, the initial 1-year ban has been meanwhile reduced to 1 month and ultimately cancelled after it was established that correct procedure notifying him of the control was not observed, whatever that means. Probably organizer's fail to give him the right instructions. The current news is only that the court agreed that Bassons deserves damages for having to go through those unlawful procedures initiated by the Federation.


Thanks. Yes the article was missing a lot of information.


I think the general opinion is Lappartient and French Federation stitched Bassons up with the missed test because he spoke about various ex-riders doping and Tygart report. Many of those riders and administrators work for French Cycling Federation. Bassons book goes into a bit more detail.
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08 Jan 2019 10:24

Squire wrote:A more recent one (announced today): A Danish junior tested positive for methylhexanamin back in May this year. Case is ongoing and the rider's name is not disclosed because of his young age.

No guarantees that it's him, but I've noticed that one of the best Danish juniors, Mattias Skjelmose Jensen, hasn't raced since May, when he won the prestigious Pays de Vaud stage race (winner's list is like reading a who's who of great juniors throughout the year).


Indeed Squire (in the Evenepoel thread) was right. 10 months suspension to Skjelmose, beginning from July the 7th until May the 6th. Accidental ingestation of a product, and therefore unlikely that he was doping, the UCI says.
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Re:

08 Jan 2019 14:45

Simurgh wrote:
Squire wrote:A more recent one (announced today): A Danish junior tested positive for methylhexanamin back in May this year. Case is ongoing and the rider's name is not disclosed because of his young age.

No guarantees that it's him, but I've noticed that one of the best Danish juniors, Mattias Skjelmose Jensen, hasn't raced since May, when he won the prestigious Pays de Vaud stage race (winner's list is like reading a who's who of great juniors throughout the year).


Indeed Squire (in the Evenepoel thread) was right. 10 months suspension to Skjelmose, beginning from July the 7th until May the 6th. Accidental ingestation of a product, and therefore unlikely that he was doping, the UCI says.


I'm teaching a different Danish junior rider (maths, so nothing about cycling). But given that I know a lot about cycling, we talked about it today during a lesson. He was far from impressed by Skjelmose. According to my student, Skjelmose had ordered an unnecessary food supplement from Russia of all places which apparently had been contaminated, and previously he had been suspended for punching another rider.

On the national team, Skjelmose had also behaved quite arrogantly and there was clearly no love lost between the two.
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Re: Re:

10 Jan 2019 16:33

tobydawq wrote:
Simurgh wrote:
Squire wrote:A more recent one (announced today): A Danish junior tested positive for methylhexanamin back in May this year. Case is ongoing and the rider's name is not disclosed because of his young age.

No guarantees that it's him, but I've noticed that one of the best Danish juniors, Mattias Skjelmose Jensen, hasn't raced since May, when he won the prestigious Pays de Vaud stage race (winner's list is like reading a who's who of great juniors throughout the year).


Indeed Squire (in the Evenepoel thread) was right. 10 months suspension to Skjelmose, beginning from July the 7th until May the 6th. Accidental ingestation of a product, and therefore unlikely that he was doping, the UCI says.


I'm teaching a different Danish junior rider (maths, so nothing about cycling). But given that I know a lot about cycling, we talked about it today during a lesson. He was far from impressed by Skjelmose. According to my student, Skjelmose had ordered an unnecessary food supplement from Russia of all places which apparently had been contaminated, and previously he had been suspended for punching another rider.

On the national team, Skjelmose had also behaved quite arrogantly and there was clearly no love lost between the two.


That's a little harsh. Most often there's more than one side to a story. I heard about that suspension for some confrontation too but Søren Kragh for one was once known to get super agitated in races. That is not necessarily only a bad thing. About the illegal substance issue it was a mistake (intentional use or not) but then he was seventeen at the time.
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Re: General Doping Thread.

10 Jan 2019 22:22

the delgados wrote:I had no idea that Chris Horner was still racing.

It's not Chris of course :rolleyes: , it's his grandfather! :surprised:
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Re: General Doping Thread.

14 Jan 2019 20:35

pastronef
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Re: Re:

14 Jan 2019 23:02

wrinklyvet wrote:
lartiste wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:90 year old busted!
https://www.usada.org/carl-grove-accepts-public-warning/
USADA announced today that Carl Grove, of Bristol, Ind., an athlete in the sport of cycling, has accepted a public warning for his anti-doping rule violations.

Grove, 90, tested positive for epitrenbolone, which is a metabolite of the prohibited substance trenbolone, as the result of an in-competition urine sample he provided on July 11, 2018 after setting a world record at the Masters Track National Championships. While investigating the source of his positive test, it was also determined that a supplement Grove was using prior to July 11, 2018 was contaminated with clomiphene.

During USADA’s investigation into the circumstances of his case, Grove provided USADA with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10, 2018.

Before disclosing his consumption of meat on the evening prior to submitting his July 11 sample, Grove provided USADA with information about supplements he had used, none of which listed clomiphene or any other prohibited substances on the Supplement Facts label. Detailed analysis subsequently conducted on the supplement by the WADA-accredited laboratory in Salt Lake City, Utah, confirmed the presence of clomiphene in one of the supplements.


Stupid, they are spending money and other resources to test 90 years old twice in consecutive days. Sorry, but even if he took whole apotheke, he is still incredible and only one in his category. :rolleyes:

I would like to be in such condition if I will become one day 90 .... .



As a much younger veteran cyclist than him can sympathise with that view. I also think that as his tainted meat explanation was considered to be more likely than not the right explanation he has been unfortunate.

However, on reading the report again I see he had set a world record (or would have done but for the failed test). Just because nobody else at the time was taking him on does not mean that his record could stand. Other competitors may in due course reach a similar age and want to go for the record. Records are pointless if they are not demonstrably reliable. So what then happened was inevitable and sympathy for him can't alter that.


He is 90 years old, the whole thing is miracle. Look around what 90 years old people are doing. Stop, at first they have to reach that age ;).

What is more interesting is whether he really took trenbolon. In my opinion it is very unprobable. Testosteron? HGH? Yes, but what the hell would be trenbolon good for him ... .
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Re: General Doping Thread.

14 Jan 2019 23:04



This is typical during few past seasons, lets catch veterans who will not have resources/will to fight the ban. Well done wada.
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Re: General Doping Thread.

15 Jan 2019 08:40

lartiste wrote:


This is typical during few past seasons, lets catch veterans who will not have resources/will to fight the ban. Well done wada.

yep. the pattern is clearly there.
Shut up, Jens!
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15 Jan 2019 09:29

Prohibited non-specified substance though. Even if not your fault, strict liability says you are responsible. It's almost impossible to escape a ban with A & B positive for prohibited non-specified using legal options because there's no legal way it's ever allowed to be in your system, even if not the athlete's fault because of the strict liability code. Cases like Contador, Sharapova, Brajkovic is not the same as Froome's Salbutomol. You're comparing Non-Specified AAF to a Specified AAF. The two are not comparable legally speaking. ie Sharapova has significantly more money than Brajkovic, Contador or Froome and couldn't escape a sanction.
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Re: General Doping Thread.

15 Jan 2019 15:03

Norks74
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Re: Re:

15 Jan 2019 18:48

lartiste wrote:
wrinklyvet wrote:
lartiste wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:90 year old busted!
https://www.usada.org/carl-grove-accepts-public-warning/
USADA announced today that Carl Grove, of Bristol, Ind., an athlete in the sport of cycling, has accepted a public warning for his anti-doping rule violations.

Grove, 90, tested positive for epitrenbolone, which is a metabolite of the prohibited substance trenbolone, as the result of an in-competition urine sample he provided on July 11, 2018 after setting a world record at the Masters Track National Championships. While investigating the source of his positive test, it was also determined that a supplement Grove was using prior to July 11, 2018 was contaminated with clomiphene.

During USADA’s investigation into the circumstances of his case, Grove provided USADA with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10, 2018.

Before disclosing his consumption of meat on the evening prior to submitting his July 11 sample, Grove provided USADA with information about supplements he had used, none of which listed clomiphene or any other prohibited substances on the Supplement Facts label. Detailed analysis subsequently conducted on the supplement by the WADA-accredited laboratory in Salt Lake City, Utah, confirmed the presence of clomiphene in one of the supplements.


Stupid, they are spending money and other resources to test 90 years old twice in consecutive days. Sorry, but even if he took whole apotheke, he is still incredible and only one in his category. :rolleyes:

I would like to be in such condition if I will become one day 90 .... .



As a much younger veteran cyclist than him can sympathise with that view. I also think that as his tainted meat explanation was considered to be more likely than not the right explanation he has been unfortunate.

However, on reading the report again I see he had set a world record (or would have done but for the failed test). Just because nobody else at the time was taking him on does not mean that his record could stand. Other competitors may in due course reach a similar age and want to go for the record. Records are pointless if they are not demonstrably reliable. So what then happened was inevitable and sympathy for him can't alter that.


He is 90 years old, the whole thing is miracle. Look around what 90 years old people are doing. Stop, at first they have to reach that age ;).

What is more interesting is whether he really took trenbolon. In my opinion it is very unprobable. Testosteron? HGH? Yes, but what the hell would be trenbolon good for him ... .


Look, I have less than 20 years to go to reach his age and I compete, as I hope still to do if I reach it. In Britain there are just over 40 riders aged 80 or over who competed in time trials last year (members of the VTTA, a national association for riders over 40 years old). We call them veterans in road time trials here and you would call them masters as in this track event. I do not lack appreciation of and admiration for the achievements of any of them, or of what this 90-year-old has done. At his age and even mine there are many people who are medically unable even to get on a bike.

However, I do believe him - that he ate something completely legitimately and without knowledge of the residues in it. Farmers optimising their cattle growth with drugs do not think of people like him, whether it is allowed for them to feed or treat animals like that or not.

This section was significant and I see no reason not to take it at face value, "Grove provided USADA with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10, 2018."

Despite all that, it surely can't be allowed for a record to stand where a prohibited drug has been found. And apart from disallowing the record isn't the reprimand he received the lightest sanction possible in the circumstances, even though it was unintentional consumption in his case?

it's so sad that this incident appears to blight his record. Good luck to him and I hope he gets another chance to add to his palmares.
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Re: Re:

16 Jan 2019 21:31

Look, I have less than 20 years to go to reach his age and I compete, as I hope still to do if I reach it. In Britain there are just over 40 riders aged 80 or over who competed in time trials last year (members of the VTTA, a national association for riders over 40 years old). We call them veterans in road time trials here and you would call them masters as in this track event. I do not lack appreciation of and admiration for the achievements of any of them, or of what this 90-year-old has done. At his age and even mine there are many people who are medically unable even to get on a bike.

However, I do believe him - that he ate something completely legitimately and without knowledge of the residues in it. Farmers optimising their cattle growth with drugs do not think of people like him, whether it is allowed for them to feed or treat animals like that or not.

This section was significant and I see no reason not to take it at face value, "Grove provided USADA with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10, 2018."

Despite all that, it surely can't be allowed for a record to stand where a prohibited drug has been found. And apart from disallowing the record isn't the reprimand he received the lightest sanction possible in the circumstances, even though it was unintentional consumption in his case?

it's so sad that this incident appears to blight his record. Good luck to him and I hope he gets another chance to add to his palmares.[/quote]

Great contribution. Congratulations.
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