Log in:  

Register

General Doping Thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Moderators: Irondan, peloton, Eshnar, Red Rick, King Boonen, Tonton, Pricey_sky

22 Jul 2016 11:26

Doping: Retests uncover 45 new failures from London and Beijing Games
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/36866141

Were the 30 who tested positive in the first round named and banned?
gazr99
Member
 
Posts: 393
Joined: 20 Jul 2015 08:53

22 Jul 2016 16:46

Huh, 2 sports only?
User avatar roundabout
Veteran
 
Posts: 12,804
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 11:43

Re:

22 Jul 2016 17:49

roundabout wrote:Huh, 2 sports only?


From the ones in 2012 apparently so.
gazr99
Member
 
Posts: 393
Joined: 20 Jul 2015 08:53

Re:

22 Jul 2016 22:48

roundabout wrote:Huh, 2 sports only?



Probably track and field and weightlifting, so if recent form is any guide, expect some more Russians. Though I am really hoping it's a big name like...oh, I don't know.... Mo Farah...
BullsFan22
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,542
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 21:19

13 Aug 2016 13:36

Kirill Pozdnyakov just put +1.20 to everyone in a 6k MTT at the Tour of Szeklerland
User avatar Guybrush
Member
 
Posts: 736
Joined: 13 Jan 2014 10:53

16 Aug 2016 09:42

Seriously? 13 for 2015, that's not enough to cover 3 athletes!

http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/therapeutic-use-exemptions/

8. Number of TUEs annually granted by the UCI

Year TUEs granted
2009 239
2010 97
2011 56
2012 47
2013 30
2014 24
2015 13
German Spies…. “Filthy hun weasels, fighting their dirty underhand war!”
One of our spies...” Splendid fellows, brave heroes risking life and limb for Blighty!”


General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett VC DSO (Blackadder goes forth)
The Carrot
Junior Member
 
Posts: 285
Joined: 04 Jun 2015 09:08

04 Sep 2016 21:54

What's up with Axel Merckx's development team, Axeon Hagens Berman? Started out as a feed team for Radioshack(!) and after a few years of moderate success suddenly put out amazing performances from teenagers among at times a WT peloton. I haven't seen too many mentions of the team around here but a team coached by a Ferrari client that was originally created to help a team run by Bruyneel is one of the most suspicious things in U23 cycling.
Brullnux
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,862
Joined: 31 Mar 2015 14:41

Re: General Doping Thread.

05 Sep 2016 16:51

great point of view :-) End PED prohibition! Not working anyway, did not work for whiskey too.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-drugs-won-the-case-for-ending-the-sports-war-on-doping
doperhopper
Member
 
Posts: 1,837
Joined: 03 Apr 2011 11:28

Re: General Doping Thread.

06 Sep 2016 18:37

doperhopper wrote:great point of view :-) End PED prohibition! Not working anyway, did not work for whiskey too.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-drugs-won-the-case-for-ending-the-sports-war-on-doping


The problem with a lot of academics postulating we end the prohibition on PEDs is that their arguments are always theoretical and not pragmatic.

For example if we legalize the use of PEDS, BUT at the same time regulate a limit on their use, to safeguard the health of the athlete, obviously it will be necessary to establish another broad host of regulations setting out the limits on legitimate PED use. Because these regulations will have to be medically based (for health reasons), they will of necessity have to be significantly more complex than the current system of just simply banning PEDs.

Thus even more complex rules will have to be enforced, which is just the opposite effect of what legalizing PEDs will do. No matter what the rules are, and no matter how hard athletic federations, the IOC, WADA and national anti-doping agencies try to enforce them there will always be legions of athletes who will flaunt whatever regulatory system is in place. (e.g. thresholds on certain PEDS such as clenbuterol). Athletes will always cheat if it means they can secure an performance enhancing benefit leading to that win, gold medal, money, fortune and fame. This is pure human nature as demonstrated for centuries and back in the days of testicle eating!

The real question therefore, is not so much a medical health concern (although the health of the athlete is always very NB), but rather is an ethical one. And this is a question the academics always dodge.

And by ethical, I distinguish between a hard line moral stance rooted in self righteous indignation (The so called "War on Drugs" in the non-sport world) and ethics that athletes define for themselves that are reasonable and appropriate to sport. Like any profession, it is the members of that profession who must set the ethical rules, and not some overlying administrative body, although once the athletes set the ethical rules, every profession will need some organisation to regulate the ethics.

The seminal issue always comes back to the issue of whether or not it is ethical to take a drug, that has proven performance enhancing benefits (e.g. EPO) for the express purpose or with the express intent of gaining a performance enhancing benefit over one's competitor!

This intent is substantially different than the reason or intent people in the non-sporting world take drugs. In the non-sporting world drugs are taken for hedonistic reasons. These reasons include to get high, pleasure, to enhance sexual pleasure, to be social, to be a renegade against society's norms etc. People who consume drugs in the non sporting world use drugs that no sane athlete would ever use to enhance performance - cocaine, heroin, marijuana, fentanyl, crystal meth etc. These consumers simply do not use EPO, blood transfusions, steroids, HGH etc. except incidentally and not for performance enhancing reasons.

In sport the intent for the use of the drug is not the same as is the reason people take drugs recreationally. In sport it is to secure a performance enhancing benefit over one's competitor i.e. an advantage. This is not a medical issue, it is an ethical issue (with obvious medical considerations as to how the unfair advantage is to be achieved). For example, a non sporting cocaine user does not take heroin to "one-up" their buddy who prefers to stay in cocaine. And if they do it is because of the additional pleasure one gets from heroin and not a performance enhancing benefit! Or for example, state sponsored doping was (is) to demonstrate that one's political system, national pride or method of coaching is superior to that of another nation - East Germany, Russia etc.

The next question sports ethicists have to ask themselves (i.e. the athletes) is whether or not this is fair in the context of sport. Fair generally means that which is reasonable and just in the circumstances. Is it reasonable and just in the context of sport, that a fellow athlete wins a competition because s/he defeats a non PEDs user, as a result of using PEDs. If the answer to this question is no, it is not fair, then PEDs should be banned. Ask this question of any clean athlete who lost a medal at the Olympics due to their competitor using a PED for the express purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over them (e.g. Becky Scott in cross country skiing (an IOC athlete representative)).

IMHO too many academics who blame the system for athletes use of PEDs (the Olympic motto for example of "higher, faster and stronger") fail to place any responsibility on the athlete for their own conduct. Instead they put the blame on the media's preoccupation with winners, peer pressure, recovery from injury, the medicalization of society etc. Ask any athlete who used PEDS to gain an unfair advantage and every one of them will admit they were cheating becuase they used PEDs to gain an unfair advantage! Otherwise why would they use the PED in the first place.

Therefore if the intent of using PEDs has everything to do with cheating to win, and the athlete takes PEDS with the attitude that the potential health downside of their using PEDs be damned, because winning is too important to worry about one's health, then it is not a health issue (at least to the athlete) but rather it is an ethical issue that needs to guide the policy about PEDS in sport.

Let the athletes determine this for themselves. If athletes choose to legalize PEDS then every elite athlete on the planet will use them. This is an absolute certainty with very few exceptions. The risk is, will fans watch any sport that is a chemical arms race? As Don Catlin says about his loss of interest in Olympic Sport - "I lost my taste" because "I saw everybody that doped."
I have vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals
- Butch Cassidy
User avatar RobbieCanuck
Member
 
Posts: 1,034
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 22:53
Location: Okanagan Valley, Canada

30 Oct 2016 06:40

This is what should be said,
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/samuele-conti-banned-through-to-2020/
"Unfortunately the actions of an idiot can ruin everything, they put at risk the job of 40 people and the life of 40 families. I spoke with the rider who told me that he took a vitamin supplement but I don't believe this ******. I think this is just the excuse of a stupid person who thinks to be smarter than the others. As a team we are totally extraneous and we are ready to take him to court."
Kirby, the reason the mute button was invented! :)
LRP - you'll believe a man can fly! “Americanese” - when you want to spread bs
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 572
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56

Re: General Doping Thread.

01 Nov 2016 10:31

Nice find by Inner Ring:

https://twitter.com/inrng/status/793394795490279428

Prince Nasser, head of the new Merida Team, was/is head of Royal Stables in Bahrain. The main Horse "Doctor" of the Stables was Alberto Beltran, probably the most infamous doctor working in cycling since Fuentes. Beltran was recently arrested when doing business in Colombia...
User avatar el chava
Junior Member
 
Posts: 204
Joined: 04 Aug 2010 14:34

01 Nov 2016 10:39

it was in l'equipe a week ago...nice find.
User avatar jens_attacks
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,706
Joined: 08 Sep 2009 18:00

01 Nov 2016 10:57

Yeah, let's see what happens about this. I wouldn't be too happy about having ties to Beltran, that guy seems ultra-toxic.
User avatar el chava
Junior Member
 
Posts: 204
Joined: 04 Aug 2010 14:34

Re: General Doping Thread.

01 Nov 2016 13:22

I´ve read many people on twitter praising Phil Gaimon and wishing him a good retirement. Laura Weislo, Velocast, Theraceradio, Connie, BadbrainAJ, Letouzet, Trudgin, etc etc, all re-tweeting this (I retweeted that too)

https://www.twitter.com/philgaimon/status/793254698807504896

yet he´s friend with Danielson and defended him and never said a word even when he was suspended.

many people who liked this tweet, bashed Danielson a lot. and many other pro-riders who are friends or trained with "dopers" or are associated with them for various reason, were bashed on twitter for that.

so, are there riders who can do things, and others who cant?

why people bash TJVG if he does a few mtb rides with Lance and big George, and those same people laugh and welcome Gaimon´s tweets, cookie jokes, and salute him and wish him well in his next career even if he trained and is buddy with Danielson? how that?

are really a "clean" tattoo and the cookie jokes enough? (well, if a few wheelies and long hair and being handsome are enough...)


mind: I am ok with Gaimon defending who he wants, and TJ training with whom he wants. I would not say a word about that. I like both riders and for me they are free to do what they want.
Last edited by pastronef on 01 Nov 2016 20:55, edited 2 times in total.
pastronef
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,717
Joined: 19 Aug 2011 08:25
Location: Italia

Re:

01 Nov 2016 13:42

el chava wrote:Yeah, let's see what happens about this. I wouldn't be too happy about having ties to Beltran, that guy seems ultra-toxic.


Not happy about ties to a doping doctor??? What about all the human rights abuses????

FFS :mad:
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 18,387
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

Re: Re:

01 Nov 2016 14:48

Benotti69 wrote:
el chava wrote:Yeah, let's see what happens about this. I wouldn't be too happy about having ties to Beltran, that guy seems ultra-toxic.


Not happy about ties to a doping doctor??? What about all the human rights abuses????

FFS :mad:


I am pretty sure Nasser knows UCI cannot do much about that. Somehow a history of human rights abuse does not seem to violate the UCI ethics criteria. However a recent and direct involvement with someone who are on par with Fuentes could at least raise some flags in the UCI HQ.

Also, this forum is for clinic issues, so that was why I posted the link.
User avatar el chava
Junior Member
 
Posts: 204
Joined: 04 Aug 2010 14:34

Re: General Doping Thread.

04 Nov 2016 09:16

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11406/Colombian-doctor-Beltran-Nino-arrested-with-AICAR-and-TB-500-doping-products.aspx
Look back on Alberto Beltrán Niño - been in Bahrain since 2009 ... mmm :confused:
http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/portraits/beltran.htm
•2016 : en juin, il est à nouveau arrêté en Colombie à la demande des autorités espagnoles qui avaient émis un mandat d'arrêt international via Interpol. Il est soupçonné d'être à la tête d'un réseau de trafic de produits dopants destinés à des sportifs de haut niveau et notamment des cyclistes. Emprisonné à Bogotta, il devrait être remis à la police espagnole
2016: In June, he was again arrested in Colombia at the request of Spanish authorities who had issued an international arrest warrant via Interpol. He is believed to be the head of a doping trafficking ring for the top athletes including cyclists. Inprisoned in Bogotta, he should be handed over to the Spanish police.
(Seems to have been juicing up athletes before Rio Olympics)
http://www.minuto30.com/cae-el-conocido-como-el-rey-del-dopaje-mundial/483635/
La Interpol detuvo en Bogotá al colombo-español Alberto Beltrán Niño, médico reclamado por España por “tráfico ilícito de estupefacientes y sustancias psicotrópicas” y considerado, según dijeron hoy fuentes policiales, el “rey del dopaje mundial”.
(Google translation) Interpol arrested in Bogota the Colombian-Spanish Alberto Beltran Nino, Doctor claimed by Spain for "illicit trafficking in narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances" and considered, according to police sources, the "king of the world of doping," said today.
Beltrán es médico especializado en medicina deportiva del Hospital Salpêtrière y Cochin de París y es miembro de la Comisión Médica del Comité Olímpico Colombiano.
(Google translation) Beltran is specializing in sports medicine Salpêtrière and Cochin Hospital in Paris physician and member of the Medical Commission of the Colombian Olympic Committee.
Kirby, the reason the mute button was invented! :)
LRP - you'll believe a man can fly! “Americanese” - when you want to spread bs
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 572
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56

04 Nov 2016 13:52

http://www.dn.se/sport/sarah-sjostrom-stottar-stoppade-landslagskollegorna/
Swedish swimmers Michelle Coleman and Jennie Johansson stoped from national team. Nobody is saying why ...
Seems like they might be party girls who had too much fun too in Rio during the Olympics.
Kirby, the reason the mute button was invented! :)
LRP - you'll believe a man can fly! “Americanese” - when you want to spread bs
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 572
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56

10 Nov 2016 16:00

Italia justice coming for those who maybe where asking riders to pay them to get a ride:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/10-11-2016/processo-sportivo-paga-corri-chieste-inibizioni-uno-due-anni-reverberi-savio-citracca-170798806600.shtml
Sport trial "Paga e corri"
The prosecutor general of CONI asks suspension for
1) two years Bruno Reverberi, team manager of Bardiani;
2) one year and six months for Gianni Savio, team manager of Androni;
3) one year for Angelo Citracca, team manager of the Southeast. [/list]
The prosecution has asked for the penalty for strict liability of the three companies; 5000 euro fine and written reprimand.
The disciplinary committee of the Cycling Federation, headed by Dr. Salvatore Minardi, will rule in the late afternoon after the defenders replies.


Verdict now in:
ALL ABSOLVED
http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/10-11-2016/paga-corri-processo-sportivo-sentenza-tutti-assolti-170800706435.shtml
User avatar TourOfSardinia
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,111
Joined: 16 Feb 2010 14:25
Location: Sardinia

11 Nov 2016 09:08

The Ulrich interview is interesting. He's apparently now a sympathetic figure, because he didn't have a choice not to dope (did Fuentes kidnap him?), and he has no opinion on whether he should keep his TdF win. This appears to be the template: dope, get busted, lay low for a while, pretend it was all something that "just happened," then become a brand "ambassador."
Bolder
Junior Member
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 25 Jun 2015 07:29

PreviousNext

Return to The Clinic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BullsFan22, carolina, Djoop, dubexcalibur, Google [Bot], rghysens and 32 guests

Back to top