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General Doping Thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 19:48

Parker wrote:
Norks74 wrote:
PY: Is it because they're all thinner?

AP: That's a theory that our doctor has. He says that they're too thin and don't rest in the winter. We did running in winter and did some gym work. Now it seems like every crash leads to bones being broken. Did you ever break anything?

PY: No, I always bounced.

AP: I didn't either. They have helmets that withstand so much now.

Steroids affecting bone density perhaps? Or is there just less cushion from the impact due to being so lean?

They had steroids in the 80s too, you know. They probably used them more then than they do now.

Not everything is related to doping.

Not all steroids cause negative changes in bone density (testosterone has the opposite effect actually), but corticoids are known to cause osteporosis with long term usage. Combine that with being super thin and it makes a lot of sense. Especially when thinness can be linked to corticoid abuse.
ColonelKidneyBeans
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Re:

26 Apr 2018 12:47



My take on US football is that the doping science is ahead of cycling (although different because they're seeking muscle mass and explosive power as well as recovery), and the testing is way behind. So much gets swept under the rug and no one GAF, see Brett Favre, Peyton Manning and the number of players who go to miracle cure docs in Florida...

The excuses are also about 10 years behind pro cycling. The old "I've never doped it was a tainted supplement" seems pretty laughable. Though, since suspensions are so pitiful (4 games???) better to take your medicine, as it were, and get back out there...if the first-offense penalty was a whole season, we'd see some really creative excuses as well as lots more lawyering up and fighting the procedures etc.
Bolder
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Re: Re:

26 Apr 2018 22:16

Bolder wrote:


My take on US football is that the doping science is ahead of cycling (although different because they're seeking muscle mass and explosive power as well as recovery), and the testing is way behind. So much gets swept under the rug and no one GAF, see Brett Favre, Peyton Manning and the number of players who go to miracle cure docs in Florida...

The excuses are also about 10 years behind pro cycling. The old "I've never doped it was a tainted supplement" seems pretty laughable. Though, since suspensions are so pitiful (4 games???) better to take your medicine, as it were, and get back out there...if the first-offense penalty was a whole season, we'd see some really creative excuses as well as lots more lawyering up and fighting the procedures etc.



I think the assumption that the NFL wants to have clean sport is faulty. How does that benefit the NFL? The public either thinks the NFL is clean (doubtful) or doesn't care. Think about AP coming back from an acl tear and nearly setting the NFL's single season rushing record. People loved that. Do PEDs help athletes recover from injuries more quickly? Yep!
Durden93
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Re: Re:

26 Apr 2018 22:38

Bolder wrote:...if the first-offense penalty was a whole season, we'd see some really creative excuses as well as lots more lawyering up and fighting the procedures etc.


This is exactly what I do like about Pro Football's doping stance (and that's about it) and dislike about cycling. Football players by and large take their suspensions and move on. The next offense is a season I believe, then later a lifetime ban I think after 4 offenses.

I think that ratchets down all the legal nonsense, and punishes repeat offenders appropriately. Sure you could adjust or modify, etc.

To be clear their testing regime is a joke and they have no legitimate interest in stopping doping. They are pretty good at stopping bad press about doping, however.
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Re: Re:

26 Apr 2018 22:49

Bolder wrote:


My take on US football is that the doping science is ahead of cycling (although different because they're seeking muscle mass and explosive power as well as recovery), and the testing is way behind. So much gets swept under the rug and no one GAF, see Brett Favre, Peyton Manning and the number of players who go to miracle cure docs in Florida...

The excuses are also about 10 years behind pro cycling. The old "I've never doped it was a tainted supplement" seems pretty laughable. Though, since suspensions are so pitiful (4 games???) better to take your medicine, as it were, and get back out there...if the first-offense penalty was a whole season, we'd see some really creative excuses as well as lots more lawyering up and fighting the procedures etc.

I remember talking to someone who quit amateur rugby because he came up against too many roiders. He said if you don't take drugs in athletics you lose, if you don't take them in rugby you end up in hospital. Same choice, plus a bit, with US football.
Parker
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01 May 2018 05:36

Administering sodium bicarbonate to horses on race day - Bicarbonate is used to help prevent the build-up of lactic acid but cannot be administered within one clear day of a horse racing.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/trainer-denies-involvement-in-race-day-treatments-as-aquanita-inquiry-continues-20180501-p4zcpc.html
Queensland trainer Liam Birchley has denied being involved in giving horses race day treatments or knowing about a "circle of trust" of people behind the practice that allegedly extended to Melbourne Cup runners.

Racing Victoria stewards allege horses were given "top-ups" of bicarbonate over seven years, charging five trainers and three stablehands connected to management company Aquanita Racing at Caulfield.

Birchley, Smerdon, Nelligan and five others were charged under an Australian racing rule dealing with dishonest, corrupt or fraudulent, improper or dishonourable action.

Stewards allege Birchley was a party to the administration on three occasions during the 2011, 2012 and 2015 Melbourne spring carnival.


more at
https://www.sportsnews.com.au/horse-racing/aquanita-racing-inquiry-gets-underway/430860
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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Re:

06 May 2018 06:32

DNP-Old wrote:The account got hacked. The samples haven't even reached the lab yet.


Now they have.
And Najar is positive for CERA.

Also, another random guy for testosterone
User avatar GuyIncognito
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06 May 2018 09:22

CERA seems to be the in thing in South America, after those Colombian busts too, and Giovanny Báez before that. It really highlights how far behind the testing is a lot of the time down there, as CERA became more or less useless as soon as it was testable, because of its extremely long half-life compared to first-gen EPO or second-gen (darbopoietin). Apart from the di Luca positives in 2009 - which because of their inconsistency with only some tests positive and others not suggested this was to do with blood doping and probably not getting the timings right so some CERA was still present in the blood in the bags - and maybe the Liberty Seguros triple positive at the 2009 Volta, there's almost a complete halt on CERA use in Europe at that point. AFLD keeping the CERA test secret was one of the biggest coups in anti-doping.
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Re: General Doping Thread.

06 May 2018 15:01

Najar is positive for CERA? I've never been less shocked about a doping case :lol:
User avatar Gigs_98
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06 May 2018 15:04

Gigs_98 wrote:Najar is positive for CERA? I've never been less shocked about a doping case :lol:

I for one am SHOCKED. I'm sure he won because he knew the local roads so well. :(
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06 May 2018 16:45

Najar positive with CERA!!
What took them so long to find out? we knew it in the same day when he won the stage! :cool:

This is one of the most obvious positives out there along with the Tour of Turkey, Mustafa Sayar.
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Re:

06 May 2018 16:50

Escarabajo wrote:Najar positive with CERA!!
What took them so long to find out? we knew it in the same day when he won the stage! :cool:

This is one of the most obvious positives out there along with the Tour of Turkey, Mustafa Sayar.

It's almost Gabrovski levels of obviousness :D
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Re:

06 May 2018 17:16

Dekker_Tifosi wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:Najar is positive for CERA? I've never been less shocked about a doping case :lol:

I for one am SHOCKED. I'm sure he won because he knew the local roads so well. :(


Technical ability was extremely important on that dead straight mountain highway. Obviously the drugs were just a small factor
User avatar GuyIncognito
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Re: General Doping Thread.

06 May 2018 17:34

Gigs_98 wrote:Najar is positive for CERA? I've never been less shocked about a doping case :lol:


To add to the Törku riders mentioned above, I'd like to also add this fellow:

Image
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Re: General Doping Thread.

06 May 2018 17:53

Libertine Seguros wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:Najar is positive for CERA? I've never been less shocked about a doping case :lol:


To add to the Törku riders mentioned above, I'd like to also add this fellow:

Image


I had to check procyclingstats to know who he is :confused:
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Re: General Doping Thread.

06 May 2018 17:55

pastronef wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:Najar is positive for CERA? I've never been less shocked about a doping case :lol:


To add to the Törku riders mentioned above, I'd like to also add this fellow:

Image


I had to check procyclingstats to know who he is :confused:

The guinea pig for Kohl & Schumacher :D
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Re: General Doping Thread.

06 May 2018 17:56

pastronef wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:Najar is positive for CERA? I've never been less shocked about a doping case :lol:


To add to the Törku riders mentioned above, I'd like to also add this fellow:

Image


I had to check procyclingstats to know who he is :confused:


Francesco de Bonis, for anyone wondering.

A while back when I went on a mental remembrance Tour through all the blatantly doped performances over the years, it's amazing how many Gerolsteiners I eventually came up with. Holczer was truly a champion of clean cycling.
User avatar GuyIncognito
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06 May 2018 19:53

Anybody who doesn't remember de Bonis, he's the guy that Gerolsteiner took off the road because they thought he was too obvious. He didn't turn pro until he was almost 26 and he was Rebellin's protégé, which is how he got the ride at Gerolsteiner. He achieved absolutely bupkiss until Romandie, when he won the stage to Zinal in hilarious style, being in the break that was caught, then launching another attack, being caught by Triki Beltrán, then when they were caught and Gadret went for the stage, de Bonis gave it a Volta a Portugal sprint to catch and pass the Frenchman despite having been in the break all day and started the final climb with only about 30 seconds advantage and ridden almost the whole thing solo.

He then didn't ride again all year, before moving with Rebellin to Savio's squad and quietly having his career erased for biopassport violations followed by a CERA positive.
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06 May 2018 20:43

bupkiss? I'll have you know he placed a prestigious 48th at the GP Miguel Indurain previously
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