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General Doping Thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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10 Mar 2017 19:30

60,000 vials of steroids and HGH found in Co,Donegal by Irish Police force

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/steroids-medicines-worth-over-2-9999210

doping is rampant if it is in a rural area like the northwest of Ireland!!!!!!!
User avatar Benotti69
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Re:

11 Mar 2017 17:53

Benotti69 wrote:60,000 vials of steroids and HGH found in Co,Donegal by Irish Police force

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/steroids-medicines-worth-over-2-9999210

doping is rampant if it is in a rural area like the northwest of Ireland!!!!!!!


Is it doping if most of the gear goes to Johnny and Mary on the street ?

Doubt you can link everything back to Professional athletes.
yaco
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13 Mar 2017 14:20

(Dunno if this is the right place to post this...)

One thing that kinda... irks... me is how riders after they've finished a ban is able to just return to their old team and get right back to racing, often despite having been "fired" by their team when the ban was given. And I know this has benefitted riders I actually quite like.

So, maybe it would be an idea to say that after a rider has completed a ban he (or she) has to wait a full season before being able to return to a pro team, so that if a rider's ban ends in October (s)he can't return the following January, but would have to wait a year.
(However, if a rider's ban ends in January perhaps some dispensation could be given, so the rider wouldn't have to wait two full years after his/her ban before returning.)
During the "probation period" the rider would still be allowed to ride for smaller teams - conti or lower - and be eligible for the national team if relevant, the rider would also be required to be tested more frequently.
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re:

13 Mar 2017 14:28

Benotti69 wrote:60,000 vials of steroids and HGH found in Co,Donegal by Irish Police force

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/steroids-medicines-worth-over-2-9999210

doping is rampant if it is in a rural area like the northwest of Ireland!!!!!!!
You might want to acquaint yourself with the popularity of gyms over here. The Sport Ireland stats have the numbers for you.

Also, the logic that says found in Donegal means used in Donegal ... it's pretty astounding. Willy Voet, when he was stopped at the French border that time, did that mean there was massive doping going on in that part of the French border?
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Re:

13 Mar 2017 15:05

RedheadDane wrote:(Dunno if this is the right place to post this...)

One thing that kinda... irks... me is how riders after they've finished a ban is able to just return to their old team and get right back to racing, often despite having been "fired" by their team when the ban was given. And I know this has benefitted riders I actually quite like.

So, maybe it would be an idea to say that after a rider has completed a ban he (or she) has to wait a full season before being able to return to a pro team, so that if a rider's ban ends in October (s)he can't return the following January, but would have to wait a year.
(However, if a rider's ban ends in January perhaps some dispensation could be given, so the rider wouldn't have to wait two full years after his/her ban before returning.)
During the "probation period" the rider would still be allowed to ride for smaller teams - conti or lower - and be eligible for the national team if relevant, the rider would also be required to be tested more frequently.

That was one of the points of the MPCC, at least one of their rules was that MPCC teams weren't allowed to sign riders within 2 years after their ban had ended.
Personally I don't agree with it, bans now are usually 4 years for 1st offence and you'd be adding 1.5 to 2 years on top of that. 4 years is enough of a punishment and I doubt the extra years would discourage more riders from doping.
User avatar LaFlorecita
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13 Mar 2017 15:52

Oh, I didn't know about bans being longer now. It just seems wrong to me that a rider can get a ban, and as a result get "fired" from his team. Then, when his ban is over his old team just happens to have a free spot for him. A free spot the team potentially have saved during the entire ban, thus - perhaps - blocking the way for a younger (clean) up-and-coming rider.
The returning rider would still be able to ride during his "probation year", just not on the WT. Though maybe he should be allowed to ride Pro-Conti as well.
And - as I said - if a ban ends in January that year should be enough for a probation period.
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Re:

13 Mar 2017 18:41

RedheadDane wrote:Oh, I didn't know about bans being longer now. It just seems wrong to me that a rider can get a ban, and as a result get "fired" from his team. Then, when his ban is over his old team just happens to have a free spot for him. A free spot the team potentially have saved during the entire ban, thus - perhaps - blocking the way for a younger (clean) up-and-coming rider.
The returning rider would still be able to ride during his "probation year", just not on the WT. Though maybe he should be allowed to ride Pro-Conti as well.
And - as I said - if a ban ends in January that year should be enough for a probation period.


Hey - Sports who are WADA compliant must follow the WADA Code - You can't unilaterally add time to a ban already served - Strange logic.
yaco
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13 Mar 2017 22:28

But if the rider isn't banned, but simply on probation? They'd still be allowed to ride and participate in competition, just not on the top-level.
It just seems strange to me that some teams will "fire" a banned rider, only to instantly give him a new contract as soon as the ban is over, with the fact that it would happen being a well-known "secret" during the entire ban. At least I don't think Saxo ever pretended to fire Contador back when he did he rather short two-year ban. Not many people can say they've completed a two-year ban in just a few months.
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Re:

13 Mar 2017 23:31

RedheadDane wrote:But if the rider isn't banned, but simply on probation? They'd still be allowed to ride and participate in competition, just not on the top-level.
It just seems strange to me that some teams will "fire" a banned rider, only to instantly give him a new contract as soon as the ban is over, with the fact that it would happen being a well-known "secret" during the entire ban. At least I don't think Saxo ever pretended to fire Contador back when he did he rather short two-year ban. Not many people can say they've completed a two-year ban in just a few months.


It's a good thing innit. It's all smoke and mirrors. The ban/probation isn't really a ban, not in the sense we think it's a ban. It's an offering to the gods. Once the offering has been made, let them back in and get on with it. They are now 'better', 'purified'. My opinion is in the minority though so that probably reads like gobbledygook.
Dan2016
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14 Mar 2017 08:22

Okay... maybe it's not so much that riders are able to return instantly on the highest level after a ban, but more the way certain teams act around it. Can't come up with a concrete example but I think I recall teams, when one of their riders get a ban, basically going:

"We are firing [rider]. We are very disappointed him in and this is not the way we do things!"

Then, as soon as the ban is over, it's:

"We are very proud to welcome [rider] back to our team!" With it having been pretty much an official secret that that's exactly what would happen as soon as the ban was over.

If you are going to simply take the rider back as soon as his ban is over - and pretty much everyone knows that gonna happen - why not simply be honest? The firing-during-the-ban-hiring-when-the-ban-is-over thing seems more like PR from the teams.
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
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Re:

14 Mar 2017 16:00

RedheadDane wrote:But if the rider isn't banned, but simply on probation? They'd still be allowed to ride and participate in competition, just not on the top-level.
It just seems strange to me that some teams will "fire" a banned rider, only to instantly give him a new contract as soon as the ban is over, with the fact that it would happen being a well-known "secret" during the entire ban. At least I don't think Saxo ever pretended to fire Contador back when he did he rather short two-year ban. Not many people can say they've completed a two-year ban in just a few months.


You still can't do it that way because you are adding to the ban - Of course some doped riders never return to the WT.
yaco
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16 Mar 2017 14:10

http://www.dw.com/en/doping-among-amateur-athletes/av-37926163
Germany's Deutsche Welle documentary on "Doping among amateur athletes"

The problem of doping has become widespread in Germany - even among non-professional athletes. Hundreds of thousands consume illegal, performance enhancing drugs which enter the country via criminal networks, often with fatal consequences.
(In English!)
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20 Mar 2017 06:14

http://www.bbc.com/sport/38884801
"Drug use at every level of sport is "fast becoming a crisis" according to UK Anti-Doping - responding to a BBC poll into doping in amateur sport.

It found more than a third (35%) of amateur sports people say they personally know someone who has doped, and 8% said they had taken steroids.

Half believe performance enhancing substance use is "widespread" among those who play sport competitively.

Ukad chief Nicole Sapstead described the figures as "incredibly alarming".

A BBC State of Sport investigation into doping in UK amateur sport also found that 49% thought performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) were "easily available" among people who play sports regularly."

This does not come as a surprise to people who hang around here.
(like this at the end of the article, "Have you doped? Have you ever taken a performance enhancing substance? Does your sport have a problem with doping? Get in touch using this link - https://ssl.bbc.com/sport/contact " Anybody got any tips on where to forward this to?! :D )
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20 Mar 2017 13:26

The point further down the article, about this becoming a public health issue, is surely what will eventually be the "giveaway" that a generation of pro sportspeople were doping. In 5/10 years time, when hundreds of retired former sports pros are suffering from health issues despite being in the physical group least likely to suffer from them, the truth will not be deniable anymore.

It might even convince those naive souls who still maintain that "only 10%" of pro sportspeople dope.
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27 Mar 2017 17:08

Saw someone asking why Diniz wasn't at Funvic this year in PRR section during Catalunya and this came out today so thought I'd post it!

http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-alex-correia-diniz-otavio-bulgarelli-and-the-uci-professional-continental-team-soul-brasil-pro-cycling/
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Re:

27 Mar 2017 17:42

Cake wrote:In 5/10 years time, when hundreds of retired former sports pros are suffering from health issues despite being in the physical group least likely to suffer from them, the truth will not be deniable anymore.
Given we've had doping since the c19th, given we've had serious doping since post WWII, how has this worked out with past generations, particularly in cycling?
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Re:

27 Mar 2017 20:40

snccdcno wrote:Saw someone asking why Diniz wasn't at Funvic this year in PRR section during Catalunya and this came out today so thought I'd post it!

http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-alex-correia-diniz-otavio-bulgarelli-and-the-uci-professional-continental-team-soul-brasil-pro-cycling/

Thanks, at least in his chase it's passport related and not just testing positive for CERA like the other guys, but that makes sense,the guy was decent at races that have at least some decent testing like Utah and San Luis, he wass probably smart enough not to dope durning those races and was only caught by the passport.
You could probably come to a similar conclusion when it comes to Dani Diaz, h only peaked for San Luis and was never a factor in the South American races that are known for having pretty low testing standarts/riders going full retard, yet he hasn't been the same since he moved to a PCT team that is a part of the passport program.
The testing at PCT level really ruined Funvic, they should have stayed at CT level where you are alowed to go full retard in certain races and not have to worry about the passport.
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Re: Re:

27 Mar 2017 20:55

Mayomaniac wrote:
snccdcno wrote:Saw someone asking why Diniz wasn't at Funvic this year in PRR section during Catalunya and this came out today so thought I'd post it!

http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/uci-statement-alex-correia-diniz-otavio-bulgarelli-and-the-uci-professional-continental-team-soul-brasil-pro-cycling/

Thanks, at least in his chase it's passport related and not just testing positive for CERA like the other guys, but that makes sense,the guy was decent at races that have at least some decent testing like Utah and San Luis, he wass probably smart enough not to dope durning those races and was only caught by the passport.
You could probably come to a similar conclusion when it comes to Dani Diaz, h only peaked for San Luis and was never a factor in the South American races that are known for having pretty low testing standarts/riders going full retard, yet he hasn't been the same since he moved to a PCT team that is a part of the passport program.
The testing at PCT level really ruined Funvic, they should have stayed at CT level where you are alowed to go full retard in certain races and not have to worry about the passport.


Watch W52 make the same mistake next year
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Re: General Doping Thread.

28 Mar 2017 21:46

Funvic Soul Brasil team facing second doping suspension -
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/funvic-soul-brasil-team-facing-second-doping-suspension/
The UCI announced the Adverse Passport Finding against Alex Correia Diniz and his provisional suspension. The governing body also announced that "Autoridade Brasileira de Controle de Dopagem asserted an Anti-Doping Rule Violation for Tampering against the Brazilian rider Otavio Bulgarelli". Neither Diniz or Bulgarelli are contracted riders for the team in 2017 but raced with the team in 2016.

Diniz previously tested positive for EPO in 2009 and received a two-year ban from the sport. The 31-year-old signed with the Brazilian team in 2013 and made and instant impact by winning the queen stage of the Tour de San Luis and finishing third overall. His last race was the 2016 Tour of Taihu Lake where he placed 15th overall. Bulgarelli, 32, was the 2012 Brazilian national champion and last rode at the 2016 Volta a Portugal where he failed to finish stage 3.

The Funvic Soul Brasil team was suspended for 55 days for three doping cases in a 12-month period and was only allowed to start their 2017 season on February 12.

As a consequence of further multiple anti-doping violations, the team risks a suspension between 15 days to 12 months, dependent on the Disciplinary Commission which the UCI said will make its decision in "due course."
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06 Apr 2017 15:14

Image

Having trouble embedding the image above, says its too big and im not sure how to resize. Im writing a literature review on a technique called hot embossing and came across a paper on micro needles. In the paper it says

"Dissolving microneedles have been used to deliver EPO(...) and human growth hormone."

A dissolving microneedle is like a patch you put on your skin, the needle just pierces your skin leaving the needles to disolve and the drugs to be administered into your body. This would leave almost no mark on the skin from administering, does not need any medical professional to administer, and i suspect would only administer a very small amount of the drugs at a time.

Perfect way to microdose and no risk of leaving behind empty vials/ syringes?

Original paper- "microneedles for drug and vaccine delivery" (2011)
EPO- "Self-dissolving micro-pile array chip as percutaneous delivery system of protein drug" (2010)
EPO-"Self-dissolving micro-needles for the percutaneous absorption of EPO in mice" (2006)
HGH-"Two-layered dissolving microneedles for percutaneous delivery of peptide/protein drugs in rats" (2011)
HGH-"elf-dissolving micropiles for the percutaneous absorption of recombinant human growth hormone in rats" (2008)
HGH-"Dissolving microneedle patch for transdermal delivery of human growth hormone" (2011)

Sources just there if anyone has time to sift through for some more information, not seen it mentioned before on here. I'll be reading through them in the future however I don't have the time to sift through papers at the moment.
Last edited by Irondan on 06 Apr 2017 16:27, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: I resized it for you.
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