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General Doping Thread.

The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

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Re:

14 Feb 2018 22:13

mjreck wrote:Was watching a bit of the football/soccer tonight, posed this question to a group of friends. No takers. Why not?

"Question lads:
When players constantly, blatantly dive in front of millions, then deny it (alongside managers and coaches) post match when replays clearly show they cheated, should we give them the benefit of the doubt that they don't dope behind closed doors?"

(I'm asking here as I don't think it'd be allowed on the general football/soccer thread)


Been using that line for years, with a small adjustment: make sure to mention the diving is for a potential gain on one play while the drugs are for guaranteed gains on every play.

Or don't. Don't ruin people's fun.
User avatar GuyIncognito
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Re: General Doping Thread.

15 Feb 2018 12:40

www.twitter.com/Thundergusset

If folk can see past their Froome vision,The Belgian Federation approved doper GVA won today,A spring of pure bullshit between him,Sagan and Gilbert awaits us,yay........
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21 Feb 2018 13:27

https://www.csce.gov/international-impact/press-and-media/press-releases/russian-doping-and-fraud-be-probed-helsinki
The Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, also known as the Helsinki Commission, today announced the following briefing:

THE RUSSIAN DOPING SCANDAL:
PROTECTING WHISTLEBLOWERS AND COMBATING FRAUD IN SPORTS

Thursday, February 22, 2018
3:30 p.m.
Capitol Visitor Center
Room SVC 203

Live Webcast: http://www.facebook.com/HelsinkiCommission

In 2016, Dr. Grigory Rodchenkov blew the whistle on Russia’s state-run doping program, revealing a deep web of deception and fraud that he had once helped facilitate. This revelation led to the total ban of Russia from the 2018 Winter Olympics and intensified the debate over corruption in sports.

After fleeing Russia for fear of retaliation, Dr. Rodchenkov now lives a precarious life in the United States, relying on whistleblower protections and fearful that Russian agents may one day come knocking.

This briefing features Dr. Rodchenkov’s attorney, Jim Walden, for a conversation on combating fraud in sports and the role of whistleblowers in safeguarding the integrity of international competitions. It will also include a discussion of the Oscar-nominated documentary Icarus, which chronicles Dr. Rodchenkov’s journey from complicit head of Russia’s anti-doping laboratory to courageous whistleblower.
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01 Mar 2018 21:30

Turns out there really was a positive from San Juan but the B sample hadn't been tested.

It has now. Ignacio Maldonado of the San Antonio team. Never heard of him.
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05 Mar 2018 21:20

One of boxings biggest stars, Saul Alvarez, better known as Canelo, has tested positive for Clenbuterol before the rematch with Golovkin.
Source: https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925
Also:
As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."
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Re:

06 Mar 2018 05:59

Mayomaniac wrote:One of boxings biggest stars, Saul Alvarez, better known as Canelo, has tested positive for Clenbuterol before the rematch with Golovkin.
Source: https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925
Also:
As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."


Well I never. The biggest star in world boxing fails a doping test and it just gets the briefest of mentions outside the specialist press.

Of course it was the meat....there's a few hundred million dollars at stake here that tells me this story is going to quietly disappear.
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Re: Re:

06 Mar 2018 09:32

brownbobby wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:One of boxings biggest stars, Saul Alvarez, better known as Canelo, has tested positive for Clenbuterol before the rematch with Golovkin.
Source: https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925
Also:
As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."


Well I never. The biggest star in world boxing fails a doping test and it just gets the briefest of mentions outside the specialist press.

Of course it was the meat....there's a few hundred million dollars at stake here that tells me this story is going to quietly disappear.


Not sure that the directors of WADA labs should be making excuses for the athletes either!
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Re: Re:

06 Mar 2018 10:21

brownbobby wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:One of boxings biggest stars, Saul Alvarez, better known as Canelo, has tested positive for Clenbuterol before the rematch with Golovkin.
Source: https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925
Also:
As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."


Well I never. The biggest star in world boxing fails a doping test and it just gets the briefest of mentions outside the specialist press.

Of course it was the meat....there's a few hundred million dollars at stake here that tells me this story is going to quietly disappear.


There is a high chance that yes, it was the meat. Was a top story on BBC sport when it broke by the way.
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Re: Re:

06 Mar 2018 10:47

King Boonen wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:One of boxings biggest stars, Saul Alvarez, better known as Canelo, has tested positive for Clenbuterol before the rematch with Golovkin.
Source: https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925
Also:
As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."


Well I never. The biggest star in world boxing fails a doping test and it just gets the briefest of mentions outside the specialist press.

Of course it was the meat....there's a few hundred million dollars at stake here that tells me this story is going to quietly disappear.


There is a high chance that yes, it was the meat. Was a top story on BBC sport when it broke by the way.


Fair enough, by the time i read it the story was way down the page.......and you may well be right re the meat, but how readily would this be accepted if applied to say....a cyclist?
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Re: Re:

06 Mar 2018 10:52

brownbobby wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
brownbobby wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:One of boxings biggest stars, Saul Alvarez, better known as Canelo, has tested positive for Clenbuterol before the rematch with Golovkin.
Source: https://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-tests-positive-clenbuterol-ahead-golovkin-fight--125925
Also:
As Daniel Eichner, Director of SMRTL, the WADA-accredited lab that conducted the tests stated in his letter today, "These values are all within the range of what is expected from meat contamination."


Well I never. The biggest star in world boxing fails a doping test and it just gets the briefest of mentions outside the specialist press.

Of course it was the meat....there's a few hundred million dollars at stake here that tells me this story is going to quietly disappear.


There is a high chance that yes, it was the meat. Was a top story on BBC sport when it broke by the way.


Fair enough, by the time i read it the story was way down the page.......and you may well be right re the meat, but how readily would this be accepted if applied to say....a cyclist?


Yeah, I was up and saw it published. it's still pretty high up the page though, just been pushed down by Wiggins interview, F1, football and Serena which you might expect in the UK.

As for cyclists:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/apr/23/michael-rogers-uci-contaminated-meat


It's a real issue and while people will obviously make assumptions there's not much any NADO or WADA can do if farmers are "allowed" to use clenbuterol in countries athletes live/compete in. Eichner's explanation also seems reasonable. He's not saying it is contaminated meat, just that the evidence falls in line with that.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/apr/23/michael-rogers-uci-contaminated-meat
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04 Apr 2018 19:48

So Canelo vs. Golovkin 2, the biggest money fight of the year, actually got cancelled because of the Clen incident, that's a big surprise.
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Re: General Doping Thread.

11 Apr 2018 18:21

edit
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12 Apr 2018 14:43

The poster formerly known as yespatterns.
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Re: General Doping Thread.

17 Apr 2018 07:23

Anyone saw De Kleedkamer on Canvas yesterday? They discussed the 2001 Amstel Gold Race with Boogerd, Museeuw, Dekker and van Petegem. When doping came up Boogerd spoke frankly, Museeuw a bit less and you could see van Petegem and Dekker were suffering. They didn't like to talk about the subject and didn't really give answers.
I wonder if it is easier now for riders that have admitted their doping in the past or riders who still deny although everybody knows they were top riders in a dirty peloton.

Bartoli was also interviewed and it was difficult for him to answer the doping-related questions.


http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.3181361

You guys have any thoughts on this?
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25 Apr 2018 11:11

Excert from the York/Peiper article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/philippa-york-meets-allan-peiper/

PY: I would have found that hard because I would have looked at them and thought, '****' because when I'd follow races there would be crashes, and you'd hear shouting and screaming but it was ones who remained silent who really scared me. I was probably too sympathetic to the rider rather than the result.

AP: And maybe you would have got used to it if you'd had a job where the responsibility meant that you were confronted with it all the time. When I got to the end of Roubaix and heard the news about Goolaerts in the evening, and we had Stefan Küng, who broke both sides of his jaw that day and had to get wired up and operated on, then it resonates with you that you're the protector of the young riders on this team. Even though we push them, you have this sense of responsibility. They're still kids. And it's not just about their sporting performances, but how they act. You could feel what it would have been like to have lost one of your kids that day.

AP: If you look back to when we were racing, we didn't crash as much.

PY: Yes we did.

AP: But Philippa if they crash now then it's a given that they've broken something. If they crash today then the next day they need a new bike. We crashed and we rode with no helmets.

PY: Is it because they're all thinner?

AP: That's a theory that our doctor has. He says that they're too thin and don't rest in the winter. We did running in winter and did some gym work. Now it seems like every crash leads to bones being broken. Did you ever break anything?

PY: No, I always bounced.

AP: I didn't either. They have helmets that withstand so much now.

Steroids affecting bone density perhaps? Or is there just less cushion from the impact due to being so lean?
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Re:

25 Apr 2018 12:58

Norks74 wrote:
PY: Is it because they're all thinner?

AP: That's a theory that our doctor has. He says that they're too thin and don't rest in the winter. We did running in winter and did some gym work. Now it seems like every crash leads to bones being broken. Did you ever break anything?

PY: No, I always bounced.

AP: I didn't either. They have helmets that withstand so much now.

Steroids affecting bone density perhaps? Or is there just less cushion from the impact due to being so lean?

They had steroids in the 80s too, you know. They probably used them more then than they do now.

Not everything is related to doping.
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 14:36

Parker wrote:
Norks74 wrote:
PY: Is it because they're all thinner?

AP: That's a theory that our doctor has. He says that they're too thin and don't rest in the winter. We did running in winter and did some gym work. Now it seems like every crash leads to bones being broken. Did you ever break anything?

PY: No, I always bounced.

AP: I didn't either. They have helmets that withstand so much now.

Steroids affecting bone density perhaps? Or is there just less cushion from the impact due to being so lean?

They had steroids in the 80s too, you know. They probably used them more then than they do now.

Not everything is related to doping.


The comments were about riders being thinner. Riders have never been this thin, least of all in the 80s.

Not every post that points out the obvious about Sky needs a response.
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 16:55

red_flanders wrote:
Parker wrote:
Norks74 wrote:
PY: Is it because they're all thinner?

AP: That's a theory that our doctor has. He says that they're too thin and don't rest in the winter. We did running in winter and did some gym work. Now it seems like every crash leads to bones being broken. Did you ever break anything?

PY: No, I always bounced.

AP: I didn't either. They have helmets that withstand so much now.

Steroids affecting bone density perhaps? Or is there just less cushion from the impact due to being so lean?

They had steroids in the 80s too, you know. They probably used them more then than they do now.

Not everything is related to doping.


The comments were about riders being thinner. Riders have never been this thin, least of all in the 80s.

Not every post that points out the obvious about Sky needs a response.

And Norks74's comment was suggesting it was steroids. Try reading next time.
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 17:54

Parker wrote:
red_flanders wrote:
Parker wrote:
Norks74 wrote:
PY: Is it because they're all thinner?

AP: That's a theory that our doctor has. He says that they're too thin and don't rest in the winter. We did running in winter and did some gym work. Now it seems like every crash leads to bones being broken. Did you ever break anything?

PY: No, I always bounced.

AP: I didn't either. They have helmets that withstand so much now.

Steroids affecting bone density perhaps? Or is there just less cushion from the impact due to being so lean?

They had steroids in the 80s too, you know. They probably used them more then than they do now.

Not everything is related to doping.


The comments were about riders being thinner. Riders have never been this thin, least of all in the 80s.

Not every post that points out the obvious about Sky needs a response.

And Norks74's comment was suggesting it was steroids. Try reading next time.


Obviously I saw that. My comment stands.
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25 Apr 2018 19:41

Is it just being thinner? Aren't they also racing at faster speed and taking more risks? I would think that entire combination of things helps to lead to more serious injuries.
In this sense you can look at American football. There are a lot more injuries, serious injuries in the past few years than there were for decades before. (Not talking about concussion in this instance, but about torn ACL's and broken bones) In that sense this isn't just a cycling issue, this seems to be a sports issue in general. In football it's thought that it's because the athletes are bigger, stronger, faster AND in better shape year round that is leading to a higher number of injuries. So it would make some sense the same could be true in cycling.
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